So I made a new character. It was eye opening

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Tahiro

see what i did there

Yes, I see what you did there.

For a moment I thought you wrote a readable paragraph with proper capitalization, but it turns out you copied that from Wadiest Yong.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Tahiro

the intrepid advocates of “gatekeeping” will start sidetracking and gaslighting,

Nope…I have no problem quite openly stating that I support what you call ‘gatekeeping’…but which I call not wanting to slog to the mountain top and feel some sense of pride in having done so, only to encounter a hundred people proudly proclaiming they have ‘done the mountain’ when all they did was take the cable car to the top.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Wadiest_Yong

the intrepid advocates of “change for the betterment of noobdom”

They don’t really care about noobs and never have done. I’ve never seen a noob advocate on this forum advancing anything other that changes that would help their own situation, and ‘think of the poor noobs’ is a handy distraction.

If I can survive noobdom…anyone can. It really isn’t all that hard, and though it may be a long slog to get anywhere it is worth it. There is absolutely no need to change anything.

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Altara_Zemara

and though it may be a long slog to get anywhere it is worth it

Well yes. The first flaw in their reasoning - assuming they are honest and not selfish - is that they get to the same point faster AND experience the same return on investment (while having learned nothing and setting themselves up for failure).

The second flaw is that they present it as being fair if anyone is entitled to benefits that are beyond the reach of others.

The laughable part is when one of them says it’s best for us to leave altogether, if we stand in the way of change.

Anyway, the skill training system is the basis of the subs, which are a major moneymaker. It’s even the huge difference between alphas and omegas. So, unless the North Sea turns into Cool Aid, I think we’re safe for now.

[Zaera_Keena]

@OT_Smithers

My new character could do basically nothing

@OT_Smithers

Very few people will play a game for months

It took about a year to train a battelship and the supporting skills, newbies can do this in a day with plex.

@OT_Smithers

I am not a new player

But you are something else

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@Altara_Zemara

I can see how people who have been in the game since the dinosaurs existed are actually so out of touch with the realities of noob-ness that really they are the last people who should be commenting on the subject.

Your posts are, as usual, unintentionally hilarious and ironic.

Here’s you on your ‘new’ Cilla account, posting less than 2 years ago:

Ganking makes Eve a better place

The problem with your opening post ( which in general I agree with ) is that you have the retrospective hindsight of much knowledge and that’s something that tends to blur how one would oneself have responded to being ganked early on in Eve. Most people joining Eve have never heard of ganking. They’re just here to check it all out…see what this ‘space game’ is all about. Some argue that getting blown to bits by a horde of 15 gankers shows them. I disagree. It’s akin to playing Half Life and mee…

Where you had more than one post talking about how lame it was that veterans felt the need to shoot or compete directly against new players.

Your current post says I’m “out of touch with noob-ness” when your own noob-posts disagree.

@Altara_Zemara

Why should those who have already grinded their way through a year or two of skills have to contend with some new fast track system for others to catch up ? Your proposal is basically cheapening the skills grind of many post-noob people a year or two into Eve.

You’re also, as usual, in such a rush to disagree that you failed to understand my post at all. You’re disagreeing with a proposal to grant bonus SP to players who complete certain chains of activity or achievements in the game to earn some extra SP.

Those chains can be completed by any two-year old player desperate to hang onto their thin competitive edge against utter newbies as easily as they can be by new players. More easily, and faster, in fact.

It isn’t a system that favors new players or old players - it’s a system that encourages players to engage with the game more deeply than they otherwise might. We already have way too many ISK faucets in the game… giving SP as rewards has a lot of advantages. Using SP to encourage new players to explore different aspects of the game has even more.

And it’s a lot better than seeing all these “poor veterans” fiercely clinging to their competitive edge against the dangers of those deadly noobs!

[Altara_Zemara]

@Kezrai_Charzai

Here’s you on your ‘new’ Cilla account, posting less than 2 years ago:

A point of view I completely changed my mind on not long after…and have been pro-ganking ever since. Which actually exemplifies precisely my point…as when’s the last time any vet ever changed their mind about anything…huh ?

[Altara_Zemara]

@Kezrai_Charzai

You’re also, as usual, in such a rush to disagree that you failed to understand my post at all. You’re disagreeing with a proposal to grant bonus SP to players who complete certain chains of activity or achievements in the game to earn some extra SP.

No, I wasn’t disagreeing because of a rush to disagree…I was disagreeing because there is simply no need for such a system. I don’t recall needing any ‘encouragement’ to do stuff. And why should I now have to jump through a bunch of hoops just to maintain any advantage ? If I can manage to still be in the game and still advancing after 18 months…why can’t today’s noobs ? Why do they need some system I coped just fine without ?

[Aiko_Danuja]

If you want new players to have something, then log into EvE and buy it for them. Swipe your credit card. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@Altara_Zemara

And why should I now have to jump through a bunch of hoops just to maintain any advantage ? If I can manage to still be in the game and still advancing after 18 months…why can’t today’s noobs ? Why do they need some system I coped just fine without ?

Well, the key reason would be because we’re already down about 2k players on average per day since you joined a bit less than 2 years ago.

And we’re down roughly 6k players (or 15%) from where we were in 2016 - before Alpha clones were added - and those were almost all paid players. I think we’d be lucky to have even 10-12k paid players on at once these days… which is more than a 50% drop from 2016.

New players don’t need a new system any more than veteran players need all the built-in advantages they cling to so fiercely. Vets have plenty of advantages already.

However, given the direction of the player trends, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to give more players of all ages more incentives to play.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Kezrai_Charzai

it certainly wouldn’t hurt to give more players of all ages more incentives to play.

Free handouts are not an incentive to play.

You are just whining, because the game is too challenging for you.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Kezrai_Charzai

it certainly wouldn’t hurt

Yes it would. Why should today’s noobs catch up with me via some advantage I didn’t have when I started ? You are not helping at all…you are actually cheapening the grind that the noobs of 1 to 2 years ago had to go through. Is that supposed to be incentive for those players to stay ?

[El_Paccino]

I believe you are correct in many ways, Incentives however may be shortening the training times off skills perhaps. No one has the time any more to sit around and wait before you are able to use certain items in game. Micro transactions exist on many platforms to assist with instant gratification.
On this platform however micro transactions are not working that well to end the grind leaving a few to just leave the training que going, while that is running find something to game else invest there with simply not returning, In 2016-2018 it was mostly unheard of subscribers playing another game other than eve. Now it appears to be a common thing - think that sums things up.

[Tahiro]

@Altara_Zemara

Nope…I have no problem quite openly stating that I support what you call ‘gatekeeping’…but which I call not wanting to slog to the mountain top and feel some sense of pride in having done so, only to encounter a hundred people proudly proclaiming they have ‘done the mountain’ when all they did was take the cable car to the top.

you paid some money to ccp and waited for the skills to come up. how is that different than paying for a ticket, sitting in the cable car and waiting until you reach the top?

[Io_Koval]

Clearly, Newbies need to teleport to the top of a mountain free of charge.

[Aiko_Danuja]

The game is not fun unless you are at the top.

That’s why each new player will receive a free customizable corporate history dating back to 2002. They also get two Perimeter keepstars per account.

[Tahiro]

@Wadiest_Yong

is that they get to the same point faster AND experience the same return on investment

thats not true, the one investing first can get a lot more out of it. this is also contradictory to your next statement

@Wadiest_Yong

while having learned nothing and setting themselves up for failure

how can they get the same out of it, if they would just “setting themself up for failure”, as you said?

besides that, there is not only sp gating, also asset gating which means there is still enough time to learn things because you need both to progress.

there is also nothing wrong with learning from failure, thats how many people get good at eve.

@Wadiest_Yong

The second flaw is that they present it as being fair if anyone is entitled to benefits that are beyond the reach of others

such a hypocrite, this goes also the other way around.

@Wadiest_Yong

The laughable part is when one of them says it’s best for us to leave altogether, if we stand in the way of change

since you are quite good rethorically, i am quite sure you can figure out what it really means and maybe even the reason behind it.

@Wadiest_Yong

Anyway, the skill training system is the basis of the subs, which are a major moneymaker

there i agree, ccp has definitely a conflict of interest in that regard. though i think they are aware of it and are trying to find other ways to get a similar effect. ie. new npe rewards and the new plex restrictions since the fw rework.

[Tahiro]

@Io_Koval

Clearly, Newbies need to teleport to the top of a mountain free of charge.

@Aiko_Danuja

The game is not fun unless you are at the top.

That’s why each new player will receive a free customizable corporate history dating back to 2002. They also get two Perimeter keepstars per account.

@Tahiro

its always the same wath some guys in this forums do, trying to discredit with missinterpreted or lied things, strawmans, hyperbole, sarcasm, trying to make fun of the others, pointing out things from others you do as well, teaming up with others to support your point, selling your rethoric as facts and so on…

you guys can do better

[Aiko_Danuja]

We don’t need to do better.

[Wadiest_Yong]

Third flaw in their “reasoning”: they forgot to ask for the ISK to make the extra SP actually DO something, completely nuking their own proposal as meritless :

@Tahiro

besides that, there is not only sp gating, also asset gating which means there is still enough time to learn things because you need both to progress.