So I made a new character. It was eye opening

From my seasoned perspective I am happy with how CCP is helping people find their way in a sandbox game. I got lucky and a veteran pilot by the name of Jerry Sendor took me in and helped me to be successful. Did some merc work. Learned the 101s. He eventually gave me 100mil to buy a WTM rokh. I got into incursions and now I am worth 18bil + not even counting the abyssals I own. All because I followed one person and was willing to learn. (This was from 2017 to present day)

I am fairly certain most people would say EVE has been simplified from what I hear ages ago how things were.

Didn’t know this thread would explode so much I kind of dismissed it as another rant with unreasonable demands lol… :sweat_smile:

Go network with people in EVE. Join upstart corps and help the cause. That is my background in EVE. It’s so fun observing the innerworkings of corps big/small and the mountains perspective CEOs must move to be successful.

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I think you’re missing the point. Not sure if you started reading at the top or not: I’m not talking about shortcuts, or impatient, no-effort jumps to advanced skills.

My issue with EVE, from a game design perspective, is that too much of the progression in the game is passive, involving overly-long waiting periods, and encouraging to much of a “set it up and come back in 3 months” type design.

What it lacks in many places is players advancing their progression by active means - by actively engaging with the game. Keep the skill system, fine, sure. Some people like it just the way it is. But add in the ability to speed things up by taking a more hands-on approach to the game.

Your stance is “if people want my level of SP, they can pay for as long as I did and wait for them to pile up”. But that doesn’t really cut it, and even someone choosing to do that today will always be behind. You may know, and I may know, that the feeling of “being behind” isn’t actually the barrier it might seem… but that isn’t so clear to a new player.

It also isn’t clear to an active gamer who wants to get in there and earn advancement by the strength of their own actions. Not by some slowly ticking timegate CCP has thrown up between them and their goal.

If the path to that advancement lies in doing some exploration, some PvP, some fleet actions, some anomalies, some wormhole diving… then not only is the player being encouraged to play more, but they’re more likely to discover the activity that ‘clicks’ with them, rather than sitting in HS doing the same thing over and over until they quit from boredom.

But this has always been a falsehood as well. From multiple accounts, to character bazaar, to trading time cards for ISK - there’s always been plenty of shortcuts. Most of them “pay to progress”. That’s another part of the problem - EVE looks pretty P2W from certain viewpoints, and it doesn’t even have the saving grace of other games that you can also “play to progress”.

I should have been more clear - plenty of players saw the need for it and practically begged CCP for it for years. They just weren’t the vets who’re fiercely trying to gatekeep every advantage they have over newer players.

The entire point is to get players doing more things, and more variety of things, in-game. This actually leads to more revenue in a multitude of ways:

  • Newer players play more and longer, bumping numbers.
  • Older players spend time exploring different playstyles, perhaps re-sparking their interest.
  • Players who’ve abandoned the game may come back to see what the new system is (if it’s advertised, and significant enough to grab attention).
  • Alpha players run out of their trainable skills faster, at which point they find if they want to keep progressing, they need to sub.
  • Players who’ve developed more than one interest in the game are likely to pay more and stay longer.
  • If some of the initiatives require fleet and corp interactions to hit the higher rewards, more players may form the social bonds that are the real binding force in a game.

So I guess my question would be, what part of encouraging players to be more active in different playstyles is abhorrent to you? What part of giving both new and vet players reasons to play longer, at more different activities, is going to ‘doom’ EVE? If skill points really aren’t that important, how is trading more player activity in the game for a mere few million SP going to wreck “everything EVE is all about”?

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So you don’t like the pvp and you don’t like the progression system, both of which are the core defining principles of this game and what makes it stand out. Yet you’re still here and you can’t stop whining and crying and have been doing so for years, who does that? How does that make sense in any way, that’s insanity.

Given that it is insanity why should anyone listen to anything you say? Why give attention and credence to people who want to do a full 180 on an existing MMO for the basic reason that they never liked it in the first place, yet played for years anyway.

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Your entire post is just a long winded call to make Eve easier…under the totally unproven assumption that doing so will both attract new people and persuade existing people to stay. It’s all really a bit of a slap in the face for those who stay anyway with the current level of difficulty. If I can cope with it as it currently is…and I’m just an average gamer…why can’t others ?

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For someone who appears to be a seasoned debater you forgot people cannot pay CCP $$$ to gain piloting skills. Go buy that 120mil SP character on the bazaar. Won’t get you far vs an experienced pilot/ship.

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I don’t see how those points would lead to more revenue.

New players who enjoy grinding for progress may stick around and play more and longer, until they figure out that that is not what this game is about. EVE is about passive progress and does not hold your hand once you’re past the tutorial challenges.

Some people enjoy grinding for progress, but considering EVE has not been designed for that, the people looking for such gameplay will be disappointed soon and leave the game anyway, or worse, demand that valuable development time goes into adding more grind-to-progress content into the game.

Or they might call it quits, considering that the older players who enjoy this game often enjoy the progress which until now has been mostly passive, which means that any playtime can be spent however they like instead of being forced to grind repetive game-defined tasks in order to unlock new skills.

The time it takes for Alphas to get to their skill ceiling of 5m SP is the time CCP can hopefully keep them engaged, which is hopefully long enough to make them enjoy the game to the point that they want to subscribe.

You want to shorten this period, and think that would increase retention?

That’s not logical.

Yea, just like ‘click my link to earn 1M SP’ forms such real social bonds right now, correct?

If people need to form a fleet to earn SP, people will do the bare basics to get that SP, which means they will spam fleet invites, possibly make a chat channel dedicated to it, and just farm the SP. Hopefully without spamming that chat channel everywhere, but we’ve seen what ‘free SP for a simple social action’ results to in this game.

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Nah, sorry, the SP system is the progression version of asteroid mining - it’s long, slow, dull, passive and boring. Players lose interest and go elsewhere while they’re waiting for skills to click, then forget about EVE altogether.

I know reading comprehension isn’t what it used to be, but since every post I’ve made has pointed out that it’s keeping the current progression system (passive SP gain over time) and adding a small boost to it through active game play in different aspects of the game at the players own choice and speed, how is this “forcing players to grind repetitive tasks”?

If you don’t choose to do so (you know, player choice of their own goals, what sandbox games are supposedly all about), then you don’t have to. If you choose to do some of them but not others, you can.

Let me know what part of this forces you to do anything repetitive at all? Especially since, as has been clearly pointed out already, SP differences just aren’t really that important?

Did you misunderstand, or are you just purposely being disingenuous because you think painting a false picture will win you more agreement than discussing the actual points at hand?

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You can already have a small boost in addition to the passive training through the form of skill injectors.

Skill injectors are the perfect catch-up mechanism in EVE for new players:

  • due to diminishing returns, these are perfect as cost-effective SP option for new characters
  • they can be earned with ISK, which means any profitable activity in EVE allows them to progress their skills
  • they do not make players to follow game-defined tasks, but allow players to set their own tasks to earn the SP their own way in in true sandbox fashion

What kind of progress system are you thinking of that skill injectors don’t already offer to new players?

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This must be “Last Person to Post Wins” thread?

No?

So I made a new character too… it has 2 eyes, both are open, they are placed horizontally across the face. I don’t think eye color matters much. Apparently neither does the topic of this thread.

Topics are a lot like this. :wink:

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You can find all my posts by a simple search on this thread. I don’t need to type them all over again for the lazy or those late to the party.

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What they want is WOW, that’s it. They want the leveling system, the pvp flag system with safe zones, the continued content addition by ccp (pve grind content, obviously). They certainly don’t want any events that have pvp components, ganking needs to be gone (duh), same for wars and then in return only pvp arenas. They want name changes, faction changes, sex changes, being able to remove or hide corp history.

What they want is something that is like every other MMO, so they can rush through the content and then cry about how there is no new content and then get bored of it. Tons of those out there but NO, they want this one to change as well. And they will cry, whine and rage post on the forums about it for years.

Why pretend you don’t know the answer. And we listen to these people and, by reacting and debating them, give credence to them.

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the Smurfs are communists. Not that that’s a bad thing, ofc.

I can’t reply much after the replies from others. The idea is not viable on several levels, as already explained in the past 600 posts.

Only that I have the impression that you would turn the early (?) part of a player’s visit with New Eden into some sort of activity centre, doing pve stuff for sp ? Eve’s themepark version ? In that case, my reply would be no, not today, not any day.

Let the sandbox be a real sandbox, not some hybrid concoction that has lost its identity, a game where the choice no longer is a real choice - few people resist the temptation of loot boxes and dailies (and now other activities too?), but we collectively hate them.

Give new players a few extra cerebral boosters, give them a set of implants that expire after a month, give them 2M free SP (1 month omega worth) they can spend, give them even more free skill sets than they already do, whatever. And none of it would even matter in the slightest for motivation. It didn’t make a difference when CCP started giving out more free stuff, why would it now ?! … But for Bob’s sake, keep the themepark elements out of the sandbox.

No amount of handholding will ever make anyone like the game more. Prove me wrong. Let CCP give away free starter sets with fitted ships for 3 months, and then measure what the retention rate change is…

Tough love works ! There is no bathroom :rofl:

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Their leader being Papa Putin Smurf.

If you increase Biology to Level V, you can make cerebral accelerators last 2 days. You then need just 15 of them to last a month…a mere 50m ISK. On the basis of these giving a 15% reduction in skill training time ( which is roughly what I determined using one today )…that is about 200,000 skill points worth for an Omega.

That is twice as many skill points as a small skill injector ( 100,000 points ) that costs 4 times as much ! So you are 8 times better off using multiple cerebral accelerators like this. Am I the only one to have noticed this ?

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EvE has been dying since 2003…

Even when it was gaining players.

Yeah, And Johnny-come-latelys always have the magic solution, like no one ever considered whatever it was on a near monthly basis…

Not really. EvE is a niche game.
While there are some things in any game that could use some change, there are also some things that a game should NOT change, lest they lose the niche to some other product.

This is why many posters defend the status quo so much. Most of the offered changes don’t take into account EvE uniqueness, and try to throw out the baby with the bathwater. EvE needs small targeted changes, not broad sweeping ones. Try something small, see if it works - and more importantly - see what the ramifications down the pipe are in a few months time.

Only when those are understood, can you broaden the scope of the changes and EvE still remains EvE.

–Concerned Gadget

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They’re really just bad actors. Lying and scheming their way pretending to do it “for the newbies” to change base premises of a niche game to suit them more personally. I love (helping) newbies but not if that newbie would require the game to change, then they can just go away (or cry and whine on the forums for years on end) and instead I’ll focus on the newbs that DO seem to enjoy the challenges and game concepts.

Why pander to the lazy?

Every time they want a little bit more, juuust a little bit more as it’s never enough, when they got one thing they go to the next. And it’s always the same people, albeit sometimes on different alts.

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So non-viable that CCP is already doing it, and yet nothing has blown up yet.

Well, in that case, you’ve either not read or not comprehended what I’ve written. Especially since I’ve consistently included PvP and FW in the lists of activities. That’s okay, most people don’t have the time to understand much more than a paragraph or two. We’re all busy, I get it.

Nothing I’ve proposed has been a giveaway, and none of it is any more “themepark” than the SoE arc or Circle agents.

Regardless, my points have been made, all the naysayers have either misunderstood, misrepresented, or just flat-out made up completely imaginary strawmen to argue against.

CCP and I are on the same page as always and all you guys can just go fly a kite !

See ya in the next great debate!

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Do you really buy $1000 jeans?

–Gadget kids

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