Occupied territory in the CEMWPA established zones do not change sovereignty. This is seconded by your NeoCom, when flying through the Placid region it always recognized the area as sovereign territory of the Federation under State occupation. All CEMWPA did was relieve CONCORD and the DED from any responsibility and liability in the sanctioned conflicts within these areas.
Being Gallente has never been about something tangible, that’s the part you’re missing. It’s never been a racial divide for the Gallente. The Federation, arguably an extension of Gallente ideals, has never been about racial division, it has always been about the ideals of individual liberty, human dignity and the rights that should be afforded to all people.
Those ideals are something we can rally behind but are naturally far less conflict driven than racial or nationalistic supremacy so the rallying tends to be less military in nature.
The purposes of the Federation Charter are:
Regulation of free and fair trade between its signatories
Facilitation of peaceful stellar expansion for its signatories
Promotions of a democratic governance amongst its signatories
To parameters outlined therein are:
The economy of a member state must not be closed to free trade with other signatories
The government of a member state must be democratic with regular elections and universal suffrage
The member state must abide by the articles of the Constitution
The articles of the Constitution are:
Dignity - Essentially that Human dignity is inviolable
Freedom - Rights of, to and from (the list is lengthy)
Equality - Everyone is equal before the law
Justice - Impartiality in the justice system
Solidarity - Freedom for individuals within larger social structures
Citizenship - Right to political participation
Both the Federal Charter and the Federation Constitution are binding for any signatory, the process of becoming a signatory is voluntary not compulsory.
I’m sorry, I’m not actually certain what you’re referencing here.
From the article: “Of all the enrolled Federation pilots, it is believed that “not more than two dozen” are active in the effort to oppose Caldari sovereignty.”
Active in an effort to oppose Caldari sovereignty. Is this addressing State Naval forces? No. This is in the context of militia efforts.
Also from the article: “Aware of the tenuous nature of CONCORD’s Emergency Militia Powers Act, and the uncertain status it confers to systems conquered by the militias…”
It doesn’t seem to recognize any concrete status. But out of the two statements being made regarding it, one is referring to militia actions as proxy actions of factions’ sovereignty, and the other statement is uncertain.
What is however certain was that the CEMWMPA was an agreement made to avoid direct war between the major factions by allowing militia forces to act as proxies. The Federation’s actions violate the nature of this agreement as it was not militia forces that carried out these actions.
It meant something once. The same way Deteis, Civire, Achura and Intaki still means. The Caldari way is to recognize the sanctity of lineage while simultaneously unifying toward a greater goal. It is not division, but distinction. I respect the Achura for his distinctiveness and he respects me in turn for mine. But we do not say that I can be Achura because or he can be Intaki because someone wrote it somewhere in a piece of paper. Nor does this reality place enmity between us.
A list of pretty words that mean very little to me.
Have we forgotten how a Federation diplomat was linked to a Gurista spy ring?
Don’t let bigotry turn you away too fast. If the conversation’s tough to have that means it’s twice as important. Coexisting requires us to understand what we hate about eachother and try to mitigate it. Even Heth rose to lead a State full of people he hates.
One diplomat having skeletons in their closet does not represent the entirety of the Federation, though it is certainly an indication that the Federation should screen its diplomats more thoroughly. Also, I was mostly referring to the bombardment of your cities line, I’m unaware of any bombardment in the Placid region unless I’m misunderstanding something? (Which is entirely possible)
Perhaps they mean little to you, but they mean a great deal to me and to others. This is a foundational dilemma between us.
The Caldari certainly recognize the ‘sanctity of lineage,’ they have difficulty seeing past anything other than lineage. Caldari megacorporations actively work against interracial marriages, even between those within the State in order to keep bloodlines pure, isolation of any external influence or bloodline is common practice. Even decorated and legendary war heroes get regimented into isolated living areas and can become subject to racially motivated attacks against them.
I’m not overly fond of wielding history as a weapon if it can be avoided, I prefer to view it as a framework for a better future so instead of dredging up as many instances of Caldari wrongdoing as it relates to the Gallente-Caldari War, the events in Intaki over the years and so on as I can, I’ll just state that we are neither without fault and the truth is that the citizens of the Placid Region have been caught between our crossfire for too long.
No need to feel regret. It’s natural for tension to break through in times of distrust and violence. It happens between individuals, megacorps, and states all the time. Once the pressure is released calmer minds can prevail.
One diplomat surrounded by a Federation delegation of diplomats. Are you using incompetence as an excuse for malice?
The bombardment of Caldari Prime ordered by President Duvailer. While these actions are often excused due to the actions of the Templis Dragonaurs, they in turn reacted to the Federation’s blockade. Over what? Colonies the Caldari established without the benevolent permission of Federation corporate interests?
The dilemma is that it’s one thing to say these words, and another thing entirely to follow through with them.
And I am thankful that the Caldari megas hold up these rule which protects the tiny Intaki minority from possibly being absorbed by one of the much larger demographics. Even actual ethnic Gallente in the State, few as they may be, benefit from being preserved in this manner rather than like their brethren in the Federation melted into some amorphous vague entity. Furthermore the policies themselves are hardly the harsh measures often portrayed in Federation. As for my ancestors that served with Mordu, the attacks they suffered had more to do with the mismanagement of how the land was given to the veterans. It was a feud born of resource scarcity and mismanagement more than anything else. And in hard times people naturally align with their family.
We don’t need to look at history. Recent events have shown the face of the Federation. They involved themselves in territorial fighting that has been set for militia proxies so that we may avoid the major catastrophic wars we’ve had in the past. If you truly want a de-escalation of tensions, petition your leaders to withdraw from those systems, and let the militias skirmish over them. Otherwise we can expect things only to get worse. The choice is on you now.
No, the actions of the Templis Dragonaurs escalated an already volatile situation which sets the stage for what happened as being a slightly more understandable overreaction; they do not excuse it.
See, this is where we begin to see a problem. While I am willing to acknowledge the wrongdoings of the Federation, you are white-washing the actions of the Caldari to try and paint a completely one-sided narrative that favors your side of the argument. This is disingenuous. The colonies were founded illegally and with duplicitous intent while operating under the guise of equal and open exploration and development that every other signatory of the Federal Charter was operating under at the time.
They are an ideal and something to strive for. Just because we fall short doesn’t mean we disregard them, it means we learn and better ourselves while continuing to strive toward them.
I find it interesting. You speak as if you’re Caldari such as when you say our cities when referencing the bombardment of Caldari Prime and use the term we when speaking on behalf of the Caldari but state you appreciate the stark divide between the bloodlines that the Caldari keep. You are engaging in the very thing you disparage the Gallente for doing, it’s confusing.
We are at an impasse here. You see the blending of cultures and peoples into an single entity indistinguishable from one another except in the ways they choose to be disparate as a bad thing, I see it as a beautiful example of unity and solidarity.
No. The removal of these systems from the militia war was long overdue. Returning them to the warzone would be utter idiocy. I’d rather face the escalation of tensions with the State than continue the ridiculous state of affairs that have devastated this region and its people for so long, apparently so would the president, the security council and the elected representatives of the citizens of the region.
I believe that, in our nationalistic jousting, we may have lost sight of the bigger picture. I think we can expect things to get worse as long as we all continue to view it as a territorial dispute between dichotomous powers. Somehow the Intaki have been placed on the sidelines in the greater struggle over their own home. Both the Feds and the CEP want to secure Placid and Syndicate as if they were assets. Maybe it’s time CONCORD gave the Intaki people some breathing room, maybe even status as a DMZ.
Given how deep, and growing, of a division there is between the empires, I highly doubt any representatives would agree to that. The Fed already broke the CEMPWA agreement, the State would never agree to a DMZ of Intaki since the Fed so blatantly violated the agreement, the Republic might back up the Gallente, but the Empire would oppose it just because they could. I doubt anyone would be willing to come to the table, let alone make compromises to facilitate this.
And if CONCORD wanted to enforce it, good luck. They’re already losing their power and authority. Backing an empire that already threw out their end of the agreement would delegitimize CONCORD’s neutrality even further than it already is.
The Feds’ breaking of the CEMPWA means their voice at the table is a weak one. The State has signed some form of agreement with the Syndicate that I presume includes provisions for the military defense of the region, but that’s well outside CONCORD’s jurisdiction. The Republic and the Empire could benefit from a DMZ since it would bring more capsuleers from the Federation and the State into their conflict.
I’d argue that the occupation of Intaki is the greatest blow to CONCORD’s authority since the attack on Yulai. As weak as they appear to be on the surface CONCORD has militarized exponentially over the years. I wouldn’t underestimate them even if I were in an Admiral’s shoes.
Or different people have different opinions on it. After all, the very fact that this Intaki figurehead is giving lectures about the ‘silencing fear’ would indicate that it didn’t silence him, wouldn’t it?
I fully agree, the Federation repeatedly shows itself unable to stick to diplomatic agreements it signed before, thusly I believe that the only demand we shall present to Federation is complete and unconditional surrender.
The thing is, gallentes are beyond diplomacy, and @Ouilliam_Antolliere is a fine example of that.
In order to solve differences we need to establish a common ground and discuss things as they are without subjective interpretations, we need to use the same words that have the same meaning for both of parties.
Otherwise what shall I discuss with him? Bees and flowers?
The facts exist whether we accept them or no, and if your opponent just digs head into sand and starts yelling “Nope nope, didn’t happen”, when all evidences show otherwise, how are you supposed to build any constructive discussion with them? His refusal to see the reality doesn’t change that reality, and if he wishes to discuss any topic related to that, he has to accept it as it is.
Otherwise it’s just waste of time.
So far I have met only one gallentean opponent who was able to discuss things with respect to reality, without just sinking into usual gallente behavior as we have witnessed right now. I just believe it was an exclusion from the rule, because every other gallente who was trying to object me was behaving like that without neither accepting facts nor bringing viable counterarguments.
That’s why I believe the negotiations with gallenteans is a waste of time. They have been brainwashed into belief that prevents them seeing hatred and crimes they themselves commit, while blaming others in “hatred”. It’s institutional with their media and education system.
And that is another reason why the Federation must be destroyed.
Like a city built on the sea, common ground between the Feds and the State must be constructed from the stone beneath the foundation. After so much war and violence over so many years we’ve laid waste to everything but the proverbial bedrock. Should we give up on diplomacy because it’s difficult? I think it’s worth the effort to keep trying. It’s easier than burying the dead after an orbital bombardment.
I don’t agree with the idea that negotiations are a waste of time, but you’re definitely not wrong about the cultural proselytism of the Gallente. Their drive to spread multiculturalist ideals often leads them to assume anyone who rejects those ideas as hateful. Caldari tend to meet the Gallente in discussion with a cold pragmatism and they do not respond well to it. It’s a wonder we manage to negotiate at all.
I’m curious to know what “deep support among the people” you are referring to, considering that, regrettably perhaps, the majority of the Intaki in Intaki choose to remain associated with the Federation (albeit more loosely compared to a typical member state in the Federation). I can’t help but suspect this is just aggrandizing propaganda.
Furthermore, you do absolutely no one a favor by continuing to support guerrilla warfare in and around Intaki. It is over. Done. There is nothing left to fight for. The Federation military presence is overwhelming. By continuing to support ongoing acts of violence against the Federation in this area, you cause harm not only to the Federation, but to the State and native Intaki as well.
You must stop this foolishness at once.
You go against the directives of the State because if the State was interested in contesting the Federation invasion of Intaki, they would have moved to bring their own forces en masse.
You go against the will of the Federation because, whether we like to acknowledge it or not, Placid has always been under the sovereignty of the Federation historically speaking. To deny or challenge this claim means the Federation may do the same for Black Rise.
You go against the native Intaki whom you have proclaimed such loyalty and identity to in the past. This is most egregious. In continuing to support resistance cells across the recaptured systems, you put your own fellow Intaki directly in the line of fire caught between your fanciful notions and uncompromising agenda. If you truly support the Intaki as you claim, you will order your forces and associates to lay down their arms, and focus instead on contributing to rebuilding efforts and other ways to support the local colonies.
In short, I implore you to stop perpetuating this cycle of violence in and around Intaki. It is over. From a State citizen to another fellow State citizen, we must focus our efforts elsewhere. Luckily for us, we don’t have to go far.
You’re asking a man to turn his back on comrades for their own good. Even if Marcus’ organization cut off its flow of supplies their associates may simply turn to other sources for support like the Serpentis. Would you prefer to see organized crime dress itself in the cloth of revolution in their place?
The “cycle of violence” as you put it will likely continue as long as the region remains under the control of foreign cultures. The Intaki have a right to self-actualize. If the Federation’s choices are viewed as tyranny by the people they claim to represent then revolution is the only reasonable response. It has happened before and it will happen again. Revolt is the only meaningful sign that a government has over-reached its boundaries.
If we consider the admission that Monsieur Trajanus and his ‘associates’ are illegally smuggling arms and ammunition to alleged pockets of resistance cells on Intaki then the end result is essentially the same, a violent uprising which will inevitably be put down by the authorities.
What Monsieur Lavius is stating is that this cannot end well and that if Monsieur Trajanus actually cares for the people as he claims to, he will not stoke the fire that will burn them down. The Serpentis Corporation doesn’t pretend to care about the people of Intaki so trying to reason with them from that angle would be pointless.
This is not entirely true of a Democratic government. Part of the mandate of the Federation is universal suffrage, this means that everyone has a voice in government, everyone has a vote. If the citizens of the Intaki region feel the actions of the Federation are tyrannical then they may exercise their right to vote and effect change within that government. Unless the Federal government seeks to undermine its own mandate, which would inevitably lead to revolution and a collapse of the government itself, then the people of Intaki will never be without recourse in the government of the Federation.
Should the government attempt to undermine itself, as it has done in the past under President Duvalier, then revolution is certain to be the end result and the people of Intaki would not be alone in rising up.
