Its not about the Medals, and the fights not over until the are no more Kin to save. As Pol said, we can sit here and cry about what was, waiting for the Amarr to come invade us again, or we can do something about it. As simple as that.
I am surprised if I have to tell you that the bit about medals was entirely sarcastic.
As I see it, we can wait and live, and maybe have a chance later, or we can have a final glorious stand for nothing now. Or, I suppose, we can continue the war of attrition against a vastly larger opponent, and die that way.
Honor that achieves nothing is not honor, it’s pride.
And we can grow, and we can build so that when the War finally comes we can win it. This vision is not mutually exclusive to where we continue to do what we can to weaken our Enemy. Nor do I think that any has expressed any sort of support for the CEMWPA conflicts. But this is the realiaty we are faced with so this is the one in which we must operate.
By all means, propose an alternative thats more than “Its all meaningless!” and then lets talk.
If we had given the Amarr provocation at any time in the last decade they would have crushed us, and they would have made sure we stayed crushed this time. - Kanth Filmir YC110
I will credit you that unlike most who seek this war, you have given thought to what it would look like, unfortunately your plan hinges dangerous assumptions. The Great Save can be considered a victory only because it went unanswered; I cannot imagine that a second one would be, it is far more likely that we would prove Kanth Filmir’s words prophetic.
Indeed, while certain whingers would have you believe otherwise, the Republic itself has value as a beacon of hope. The Great Rebellion was when the Minmatar had nothing to lose but their chains. Now? The Republic would stand to lose everything that has been built for over a century.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
To everyone playing the tired as ■■■■ cowardice card, are you ready to watch hundreds of billions die, hundreds of planets burn and trillions to be enslaved again? Is that something you’d want?
That was not clear?
Make peace. Renegotiate CEMWPA. Refocus on Edencom. Let fade the war tattoos.
At what cost that could be achieved? I don’t know. But it needs to be achieved.
(Related: To Keitan Yun and CONCORD: an appeal for peace .)
And what would this peace look like? Would you solidify the Status Quo? If this peace were made today, would you cede all the Matari worlds currently in the conflict zone to the Amarr? what concessions would you ask of them, and more importantly, what concessions are they likely to make to the “Rebel Provinces?”
I don’t know what this peace at this moment would cost us.
More, certainly, that it would have cost if we had not thrown it out of the window in the first place. Or been forced to do so, with a very interestingly timed revelation about the Starkmanir, whichever.
What could have been is irrelevant. The pertinent question: Is there a cost that is too high then?
For the survival of the tribes?
There are costs I’d find very hard to pay, of course. Gods give me courage.
The notion that a war at an undetermined future time is a guaranteed loss is not well supported by history.
Plenty of examples exist of small nations rising to defeat formerly greater powers.
The Amarr empire is bureaucratic, inefficient, and corrupt. A recipe for slow decline. You need look no further than this war with the Triglavians wherein they over-commit forces to uncontested territory. Yes its an impressive display of power, but its not an effective one. Now they must dedicate wealth and personal to maintaining those massive fortifications.
If the Minmatar dedicate themselves to building an efficient effective industry and fighting force they could surpass the Amarr. Look how the Minmatar tend to use only the minimal amount of force needed to repel the invasions and have not bothered with the cost of building many fortresses. Every such move is an efficiency gain. This is how we will win, by being smarter and wiser.
You’re also not in this alone. The Gallente people care about your cause. We have and will rally to help you expand your economy improve your defenses.
At the moment the Triglavian’s are the greater threat. Even if their non-voluntary conversion of our peoples is benevolent its not freedom, and to the best of our knowledge the harm they do to our stars is not reversible. Its in our best interest to meet this threat together.
You would have us indebted to EDENCOM, Elsebeth?
The cost of which you speak of is submitting to EDENCOM’s agenda, which is not our agenda.
I don’t subscribe to Imperial plots or other such nonsense, I just see us plunging ourselves further into the debt of a party that is not our own.
And that troubles me greatly.
No, obviously she’d have EDENCOM indebted to us.
This. Associations run both ways, and at the moment, Edencom needs us at least as much as we need them. Especially the Federation and the Caldari State who do not get to reap the benefits of fortifications the same way the Empire does.
How long have we been adrift in the sea of the stars and waiting for opportunities to come swinging our way? It feels like it’s been literal lifetimes of patience. Then when the opportunity finally comes guess what happens? We curtail to their ideal status quo and let it slip through our fingers like so many grains of sand.
I’ve spent so much time wandering the cosmic sea and yet still the scenery remains the same. You know what I’ve learned? Sometimes it is wise to note of an enemy’s misfortune with a terrible storm. Storms are uncontrollable by nature, as is their design. Uncontrollable and at times unpredictable. Yet there seems to be a great level of neglect when it comes to capitalizing on such unforseen disaster. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, after all. If not temporarily.
When the time came to evoke a stricken cancerous cell inside of the living Titan that is the Empire too many instead sought to ally with the cure. Well congratulations. The once malignant tumor has been excised and it only cost the addition of Matari blood and unwaivering loyalty. So many familiar terms, don’t you agree?
By random chance this chaos has seemed to veer away from Republic space. That so much is a blessing. Another question I always ask myself when deciding my friends or foes is “how would this entity react in my most fire situation.” How do you feel the Empire will react the moment the xenos start targeting more and more Republic space? Surely your wise benefactors will repay such kind actions, measures, and sacrifices before. Aye?
Those of you who supported EDENCOM even in Amarrian space haven’t even realized it yet but you’re damning us all. Now it’s only a matter of time.
The only peace that can exist is when the Empire crumbles and their royal family lies stinking and rotting in the planet’s soil below. You cannot change these people. I once heard of an Amarrian fleet commander brag about how many Matari slaves they used as crewmen whilst fighting Republic forces. They don’t see us as people, nor will they ever. They will use our people as a meat shield to hide behind like the cowards they are just as they will use EDENCOM as a meat shield and Triglavians as a distraction. Yet we hold our heads high saying it is our honorable approach will be a course of redemption.
I’ve roamed this cosmos for years, I blame my Thukker blood. The most eye-opening scene I saw was a mighty battlefield, ruined with scrapped wrecks as far as the eye could see of ships and crew of all nations and sovereignty. Maybe you should consult Molea if honor matters at the end.
It has not. Republic space has been invaded in proportion to our size. That you cannot see more than handful of active systems is due to us having fought those systems until both sides withdraw.
So far, they don’t seem to give a ■■■■ if we are or not; they are too busy fortifying their own systems.
You know it’s not an hereditary succession, right? There’s no one royal family.
Also, whut Else sed.
We’ve fought very hard to keep the triglavians out of Republic space. The Kybernauts last attempt to invade destroyed every republic fleet vessel that entered the system for 18 hours; we only saved the system by responding in kind for nearly 24. To dismiss so many sacrifices as random chance is insulting to the very people you are calling to fight!
Perhaps you should join us on the front line and see what is happening before you mistake this galactic crisis for an opportunity.
Having had considerable time to ponder a response to this from my own perspective as a resident and soon-to-be citizen of the Federation, I shall offer my thoughts below.
The Floseswin Conflict was a victory from a defensive standpoint and a much needed one to show not only certain belligerent factions, but the Empire as a whole that the Republic, despite the ebbing and flowing fortunes of the CEMWPA War, is not an easy target. That many in the Republic and the Federation answered the call to arms to defend this system is nothing short of impressive and a sign of things to come should an episode like this occur again.
However, as Captain Rhiannon rightfully points out, this was also a defeat. 150,000 individuals have been taken from their homes and ripped from their families by claws so wretched that few rival it’s barbarity, no matter the justification under the ‘laws of war’ that permit the taking of slaves. Whole communities have been torn apart and the cost of reconstruction will hobble the development of an already under-invested area of low-sector space. This cannot be ignored and should always be remembered when war seems like a popular option.
That is why the CEMWPA Conflict must be drawn to a close with a negotiated peace, for all nation-states of the Big Four. The cost that these conflicts have wrought in blood and ISK has to be put to an end. It is not a mark of cowardice to promote such a notion, despite the attempts of those to paint it as such.
I often think about the meaning of my words when I utter ‘For Liberty and Justice’. Personal liberty is so precious to each and every one of those that can call themselves ‘free’ in this cluster, whether they reside in the Federation or the Republic. And this Liberty must be protected through all means necessary, as long as they do not jeopardise the future generation’s ability to enjoy the same rights and privileges that we do today.
The Republic has grown exponentially from the Dawn of Liberation some 140 years ago. Risen from literal ruins, it has developed into an entity that has enabled the ongoing reconstruction and rediscovery of Matari self-identity and culture, as well as safeguarding that for the future generation to ensure that they are never again subjected to the cruel fate that their ancestors endured. And with the Federation’s assistance and protection afforded by those that share the same values of freedom and self-determination, it shall stand for many centuries to come against the encroaching darkness that howls in the visible distance.
That brings me to Justice.
I can not possibly imagine what the Matari have endured at the hands of the Empire. None have suffered as much as they have, along with the others that have had their identities and cultures consigned to distant memory. And it shames me that for a long time, I assisted this Empire in my capacity as an officer of the State Protectorate and I would humbly request forgiveness from those I have wronged in the Federation and the Republic.
For these crimes, Justice must be had for the victims.
That said, if the quest for Justice is concluded without adequate safeguards for the Liberty of the people, then neither will be achieved in the long term. All that will be achieved is the destruction of what we hold dear to us and the victory of the oppressors again. That is not to say, forget the past. The past should always be remembered! But do so whilst building upon the foundation of the sacrifice of millions that made the Republic possible, instead of burning it to ash.
Justice will be served, of that I have no doubt. And when it is, the Federation and her people of all stripes will stand beside the Republic when that day comes.
But for now, to secure the Liberty of the people from the aggression of the Triglavian Collective, we must unite under EDENCOM. It is not without precedent; the first iteration of Sansha’s Nation was broken through the combined fist of the Big Five at the time. Therefore, it is in the best immediate interest to direct our efforts to repulsing the clear and present danger that is the Collective and those that would aid in their designs upon this cluster.
It is not an easy road to travel, but we must set forth all the same.
For Liberty and Justice. Never again another Long Night.
To prioritize the status quo over principles would have meant no rebellion in the first place. It is sad to see this spirit so extinguished by fear - and, in a way, comfort. It is so much more comfortable to tell oneself that the day for justice will come. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next year, maybe a thousand years from now. That to be a slave is not so bad, because a rebellion is doomed to fail, and isn’t it better to live than die?
The Republic has sold its soul for comfort. Liberals wring their hands and side with the Reactionaries, as they always do when given the choice of progress. Those who would be Vanguards have been neutered and discredited. Called naive or misguided.
When the Triglavians arrived, the Republic had a choice: to fight for the future, or for the status quo. Triglavian forces clearly focused on the Amarr. Triglavian culture clearly despises authoritarian power structures. Triglavians are - were - the natural ally of the Minmatar.
But instead you chose to side with your oppressors. Your government pays tremendous sums into the Edencom program - which has resulted in the largest buildup of Amarr forces in decades. That your government willingly pays the Matari people’s taxes in order to build Amarrian fleets should disgust you. Yet so many defend this; because the status quo is so much more comfortable. Slavery is so much easier than change.
Now it is likely too late. Now the Republic will likely suffer for it’s choice to ally with the Amarr. And in the days of the Rebellion, any who had done so would be rightfully ostracized. But now, the Ammatar have apparently turned from the enemy into an aspiration. You follow one to battle with all your heart.
I have personally destroyed hundreds of the new Amarr armada. How many have you saved? Don’t wring your hands about this not being the right time. Be truthful with yourself. If you spit on the graves of your ancestors, admit it freely, like the leader of Edencom does.
If you wish to save the Republic - both its territory, as well as its Soul - you have only one choice. And the chance diminishes with each day of delay, and each ISK given to the Amarr. Cede some territory now; coordinate with the Triglavians and liberate billions of your people from Amarrian hands - or lose it all when the Amarr use the fleet you pay for to get back what they consider their birthright. Roll out the red carpet perhaps.