Suggestion: Salvage Probes & Salvage Probe Launcher

After you’ve rolled a hole, does the bookmark of the hole disappear?

(Only if you delete it. So if you’re looking for salvage of a fight that happened at the hole, do not delete your bookmark. Problem solved!)

Ummm yeah… but I’m taking about going through systems to find wrecks. Not going back and salvaging a fight you were in. And you know that.

You tell me. Why a proposal based in “this player want” couldn’t be be dismissed because “those other players don’t want”?

Leaving you in the losing side don’t remove conflict. Apparently it adds salt, however.

So you’re just going to travel through wormholes in the hopes of randomly finding a battlefield where (1) hostile players (2) happened to fight (3) less than 2 hours ago and (4) have rolled the wormhole yet (5) aren’t anywhere nearby anymore to kill your salvaging ship.

Okay, all the stars align. Now you really really need this module to salvage that battlefield?

If those players weren’t hostile they could have told you where the fight happened. If the fight happened longer than 2 hours ago the salvage is gone, yet they need to have rolled the wormhole, otherwise a normal probe could do the trick. And after all that, you want to salvage that battlefield without hostiles in sight because they would kill your salvaging ship.

I would think it’s easier to just ask a fellow corpmate to let me know when I can salvage his sites.

Niche? It doesn’t even exist in the game at this point. Every solo endeavor would be “not a win for the game environment” by your logic. If you are not personally interested in using such probes that’s fine. But I have heard no one express any actual gameplay hindrance this would cause. Nor any fundamental gameplay mechanic roadblock to its implementation.

I’m not trying to be mean, but why do you and others perpetually ignore the entire point of the salvage probe? It’s getting frustrating because it’s like I’m speaking to a brick wall and people are sounding like broken records. The intent of this salvage probe is to get access to wrecks in areas that have ALREADY BEEN CLEARED. I cannot do that with combat scan probes.

Did you even read through the topic?

TL;DR That’s a ridiculous suggestion and I find it hard to believe you don’t realize that. It’s far too time-consuming given a time frame under 2 hours.

Are you being serious? We’re dealing with AU distances here. And that requires the wreck area be between two warpable points. There are rare (read: extremely lucky) cases where that could be the case, but for the overwhelming vast majority of the time it is not. And, again, we’re dealing with AU distances. Even if you manage to get a bookmark very close to the target area on the system map, you’re still going to be tens of thousands of km off at the best of times. You’d have to then use DSCAN to plot a sub light course. Remember, the wrecks are only there for 2 hours. Less depending on when you find them.

I recall retrieving a MTU I forgot to bookmark some years ago when I used to play. It was left near a sun and had to be between the sun and a station. I luckily I was able to get within the general area by simply warping to 100km from that station, but it took me quite a while to get within range of the MTU even showing in my overview. I had to occasionally reposition my trajectory towards it using DSCAN when it would fall out of the cone. It took a very long time with a speedy frigate fitted with a MWD to reach the MTU. As in, I left the computer and did other things and periodically checked in to adjust my heading, long time. But I wanted to see if I could do it.

Hey, I never said it would be quick. Just that it’s possible.

Anyway, ask your corpmates if they have free salvage if you want to find sites. No need for changes to the game.

You can combat probe an mtu.

This is not a solo game, far too many people keep trying to make this a solo game when it’s not. I play solo sure, but I interact with others when need be, or if I’m bored and want to salvage their loot etc.

If you wanna be solo, go to another game. Utilize the coop components of this game. Make friends and run with.

They don’t ignore, they just think it’s not a sufficient valid motive to implement your idea.

I get your intention.

But as I said, the introduction of salvage probes will introduce more problems. And salvage probes aren’t needed to find wrecks to salvage, as there are many other functional ways to do so.

Yes, that means you won’t easily get to that site you see somewhere on D-scan. But that also means CCP does not need to spend time implementing something that isn’t necessary yet breaks part of the gameplay.

We don’t. The point of a salvage probe is to take advantage of what other players did without actually interacting with the other players. This is an MMO. Deal with people, don’t avoid them.

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if by more problems you mean more content and player interaction.

I thought the argument against them was to avoid interacting with other players?

No, I mean that it invalidates the player interaction of hard-to-probe ships and anchorables versus combat probers. People would just use wreck probes instead and bypass the existing counterplay.

No, the argument Gerard is making is to avoid throwing away the current counter-scanning mechanics for combat probe defense.

Player A is running anoms in low sec in a ship that is hard to scan. They have given up some combat capability in exchange for slipperiness.

Player B normally would have to have very high scan skills, or give up more of their combat capabilities to improve their scanning capabilities in order to probe down Player A.

In the Salvage Probe world, Player B no longer has to probe down Player A - he only has to probe down the wrecks Player A is creating.

Now Player A has given up profitability for nothing, as his reduced sig radius is meaningless when his wrecks are scannable.

and that’s why I said just make rat wrecks harder or impossible to scan and focus on making player wrecks scannable.

Please elaborate. Because I thought we already went over this already.

Is there some ship that is impervious to combat probes entirely that I’m unaware of? That is the only way I can make sense of what you’re saying. Even if that was the case, should everything in the game be tailored to give this particular class of ship invulnerability from being tracked down in all scenarios?

Help me understand. Given what is reposted above, walk me thru the issue you have, in a step by step scenario, where the salvage probe negates ships with low signature radius to a greater degree than anything else currently in game. Because if these ships are just harder to scan down I don’t see the issue. More time and effort is required to scan down salvage in the way I’ve laid out. And you not only get early warning, but the opportunity to prevent the would-be salvager from landing on grid at all.

I would think combat probes are more of a threat to even ships specialized for difficult detection. Especially for someone actively engaged in combat and not necessarily clicking DSCAN as much as they need to. You literally have a flashy land on grid announcing the area has been scanned and you have 20s to respond. You don’t get that luxury with combat probes.

I already gave a response to that.

If ships have a high sensor strength and a low signature radius, they’re harder to probe down. If you have enough sensor strength (Marauders with their bastion bonus, ECM scripts in sensor boosters, implants) nobody can probe you down except for the best probers with the best (Virtue) implant sets.

A couple of numbers (which I gathered some time ago):

  • The maximum scan strength for max skills, best ship and best implants is 105.
  • The hardest you can make your ship to get probed down is when your sensor strength is radius/1.1 (So if your radius is 35, get a sensor strength of at least 32 and you’ll be max-unscannable)
  • The scan strength you need to scan such a ship is at least 83
  • Without implants, the maximum scan strength someone can get is 70
  • Without scan bonus on your ship (for example with combat probes on a T3D or combat probes on a fleet commander ship), scan strength is 38 at maximum skills.

As you can see, you can choose your ship fit to be immune to certain types of combat probing. You won’t be immune to them all though, but it’s very rare that someone just happens to be flying a virtue combat probing T3C with scan strength upgrades, unless they’re specifically out to get your near-impossible to probe down ship.

This interplay where players can choose (to pay a lot of ISK) for objects in space with higher sensor strength is also seen in mobile depots:

and mobile tractor units:

As these deployables are usually deployed right next to wrecks, a ‘wreck scanner probe’ would completely ignore the existing gameplay between hard-to-probe down objects and probers.

EVE is a Massive Multiplayer Online environment regardless of whether or not there are things a player can do themselves without the help or interaction with others. High security space packed full of people doing their own thing solo. That doesn’t make EVE any less an MMO. EVE is a sandbox of sorts. It’s not for you or me to dictate how anyone else is supposed to play with the sand provided. When and how someone deals with people is not up to you or me to decide. Based on what you’re saying I would have to conclude you would want all solo content and activities removed along with any and all “stealing”.

People steal jet cans. I assume that’s still a thing. It’s taking advantage of what some other player did. There is no player interaction.

Should this not be allowed: Yes or No?

People stumble across wrecks and loot them. The handiwork of another player who is long gone. I entered a belt some days ago and there was a wreck and corpse of another miner who was careless (likely AFK). I looted the wreck of the ore they had already mined and salvaged it, taking advantage of that player’s and their killer’s work. The day before yesterday I found a thrasher wreck on a gate when I entered a system. I looted it and salvaged it. If I warp to a belt and someone has already destroyed the pirates, I loot and salvage. I don’t interact with any other player. I took advantage of what some other player did.

Are you seriously saying I shouldn’t be able to do that: Yes or No?

Let’s say I bookmark combat anomalies and come back later to salvage the wrecks once the site is completed. In doing this I don’t interact with any other players. I took advantage of what some other player did.

Should that be disallowed: Yes or No?

I myself was actively completing a combat anomaly in high security space for the daily reward. A Merlin entered after me and started salvaging the wrecks while I was still there fighting the NPCs. I didn’t care, but let’s say I did. I have no recourse in this situation. Attacking the salvager would only get me destroyed by CONCORD. So there is no player interaction dynamic. No more than if I had left and the Merlin pilot showed up later.

Should what that pilot did be banned?

Do you simply not want someone to take your salvage on the off chance you might want it? I’d understand that, but this is EVE. I’m for making salvaging yellow wrecks a suspect flagging event, but to say something should not be because it might inconvenience you (not saying you said this) wouldn’t be a valid position. Especially in this game.

Also, speaking from the role of a salvager:

I wouldn’t like it if other people could come by and bookmark my salvage field while I’m flying home to grab my salvaging ship. They could steal my salvage or hide for my return to kill me without warning of combat probes.