T3 Harbinger mission fit?


(Shawn Delazar) #1

As i cannot post entrys in other forum-parts i have to do it here.

I need a t3 Harbinger Mission fit. I found a few outdated ones but most of them are not usable anymore. The fit should be good enough to do t3 missions but not to expensive or skill intensive.

Maybe someone can help. A few explanations to the fitted modules would be also fine.


(Nora Maldoran) #2

I don’t run mich mussions but surely you will find some inspiration on
https://o.smium.org

To me your post sounds like you would expect us to solve your dilemma. From my experience that’s a bad idea in a sandbox like EVE.
Just letting you know. :wink:

The fitting simulator is your friend.


(Sara Starbuck) #3

Biggest beams you can fit, afterburner, tracking computer or two, capacitor modules, heatsinks, repper, 2 hardeners.

After you fill the ship with those, look around what you can/want upgrade or change.


(Shawn Delazar) #4

the thing is
fitting is a complicated part of eve and the number of different parts is just…

i don’t know when to fit a meta and when to fit a t2 (some metas seem to be pretty expensive but then again… t2 are better? aren’t they)
or whats the difference between dual beams and whatever beams there are and when i should use what
by looking at some fittings i learned a few things but i still have to work out when to use what armor or rigs
i have found a fitting that seems to work for the moment but its far from optimal
so i hope to learn a few more things by asking others for ideas.


(Kitty Bear) #5

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turrets

Explains the basics of all 3 turret types …
Check the table towards the bottom for an explanation of the difference between pulse & beam weapons
Whilst your there, check their info on tracking, tanking etc …

I use EveHQ for testing out fits …
It keeps track of how much cpu/pg is available
it’s linked to my skill profile and so can highlight training needs for a fit
The downside is its numbers based on optimum conditions (a stationary target with 0% resists)

EFT & PYFA both do the same thing, I just prefer the extra functionality of HQ

What’s the difference between Meta 0 through to Meta 5 …
Skill requirements
CPU cost
PG Cost
Cap Activation cost
Effect given

You have to look at the numbers and decide which is best for you for the task you are performing

Different NPC groups have different damage profiles
Serpentis do mostly Thermal damage, with a little Kinetic
Mercenaries do a little bit of all four


(Sara Starbuck) #6

The “dual” something beams is just a name of smaller beam laser, there are similar names on other weapons too, like rails. Usually you just want the biggest of the 2 or 3 different sizes if your powergrid can handle them, often you cant fit proper tank if you go with biggest so many times its better to downgrade one step if your fitting skills are lacking or if you dont want to compromise tank.

The smaller variants have less dmg and range but slightly more tracking, however the increased tracking wont usually help much if you have tracking issues in hitting elite frigates or certain drones which orbit really close really fast, since the biggest penalty to hitting comes from your turretsize (small/medium/large) and/or weapontype (rails/artillery/beams) where tracking penalties are on other magnitude than the small difference on the size of your gun.

Most of times you still want to use the longer range variants on pve since range is so helpful in pve, often reducing actual missiontimes and making tanking easier and most targets arent hard to hit, in pvp its different issue.

If you havent, bookmark this Quick Reference its super helpful particularly in the ammo and enemy resist parts. Mining info might have old data.


(Vortexo VonBrenner) #7

terms sidenote: T3 refers to Tech 3 ships and lvl3 refers to level III missions


(Keno Skir) #8

Thanks dude, t3 Harbinger was all i read in the OP and was amazed nobody sorted that out earlier.


(Donnachadh) #9

Harbie information.
EvE Univeresity
From the old forums

Actually they are so much more than just smaller versions.
As an example I will not waste the space for the full fit and character skills since the real point here is the relative difference between them and not the actual numbers.

250mm Railgun II
10.65 tracking
39 dps with fed navy antimatter

Dual 150mm Railgun II
19.49 tracking
35 dps with fed navy antimatter

As you can see the major advantage here is that you get nearly double the tracking speed for a very minimal decrease in dps which makes the “Dual” versions of a weapons system an excellent choice when trying to hit smaller faster targets, this is especially true in PvE where the minimal dps loss is for all practical purposes irrelevant. I used rails here as the example simply because I was looking at a fit for a corp mate that uses rails you would get similar results from the “Dual” version of any turret based weapons system.


(Kitty Bear) #10

I find a better mental image helps me more.

Each weapon system is composed of 2 bits
A Mount
The Weapon

1 - Small Mount + Small Weapon
2 - Medium Mount + Medium Weapon
3 - Medium Mount + 2x Small weapon
4 - Large Mount + Large Weapon
5 - Large Mount + 2x Medium Weapons

For me, it’s easier to visualise what’s going off in the mechanics of the weapon system this way … and that helps me understand why they perform differently.

It’s easy to see how Dual 150mm’s & RLML’s fit into category 3 … and still both be ‘Medium’ sized weapons for Cruiser/BC class ships


(Sara Starbuck) #11

I like to keep my answers simple instead of spoonfeeding all the information and exact fits.

You forgot the “small” diffence in range (about double), which is why you pick rails in the first place. When shooting at correct ranges the bigger guns outperform the smaller ones, even shooting small targets, about 20% more dps with double the range. If you use longer range ammo to compensate, you lose even more damage.

Sure if the enemy is orbiting you close then the small “dual” ones do more damage but then you have already problems, you should kill the small ones before they get near or use drones to get rid of them, while using main armament to drop the bigger targets. There is a reason huge majority try to get biggest guns they can onto their fits, smaller ones do have niche uses but not in pve.

Also the reply stands, the “dual” name doesnt mean anything special, its just as i said, smaller version of same type of gun (it could just be named 175mm railgun or something and nothing would change), it doesnt track anywhere near as good as a true small turret.


(Donnachadh) #12

Simple answers are not always the best especially when dealing with a new player.
Giving exact fit especially if you bother to explain how and why you choose each of the modules is extremely beneficial to new players since it helps them to better understand how and why the various pieces fit and work together. But then you are probably one of those who has no trouble with fitting ships and therefore has no understanding of how or why other cannot grasp some of the basic concepts involved. And lets not forget that the one piece you purposely refuse to give because simple is better may be the one piece that brings the whole world of ship fitting into focus for another person. Now if the OP is still coming back to the forums 3 or 4 months from now and asking for fits to solve a problem then I would be more inclined to agree with you on giving out simple things.

For the rest I am not going to bother to quote you.
Thank you for completely ignoring the portion where I stated I was using rails as the example simply because that was the fit in front of me at the time.

Thank you for ignoring that there are other reasons to choose rails over any other weapons system, but then you likely do not give a damn about some ones trained skills.

Yes the “Dual” versions will have less range, but guess what for a low SP character that range issue is significantly easier to deal with than the tracking issues of the other options in the same weapons group. Range can be dealt with by smart piloting or simply waiting until things come into range. On the other hand dealing with the tracking often requires the use of slots that would be better used for tank, resistance or cap mods. Setting all of that aside in level 3 missions the majority of the ships are going to be cruiser size and below and that magnifies the tracking issues. The “Dual” weapons help significantly with that tracking and yet have a minimal affect when dealing with the few larger targets they may come up against. All of that means that the “Dual” weapons can be and often are a significantly better option for many players and especially so for those with low SP.

Another advantage to the “Dual” weapons that you are conveniently forgetting is how they can help the Alpha players. The improved tracking means that they do not have to use limited SP to train skills specifically to aid tracking and therefore have that SP available for something else like tank skills, cap skills, damage application skills and the list goes on.

Are the “Dual” weapons right for everyone or for every circumstance? No they are not, but in this specific case with a new player stepping up into level 3 missions they just might be the best option, trading range for tracking while having a minimal impact on damage dealing abilities seems to be a perfect fit for this sitiuation.


(Sara Starbuck) #13

:peace_symbol: You misunderstood me at couple points and there was no ignorance nor malice intended, but I dont want to keep on arguing on New Citizens.


(Gleb Koskov) #14

You’ll want a set of meta 4 heavy beams, imp navy standard M, either navy gamma or Xray crystals, an mwd with cap battery , for lows you’ll want rat specific passive energized platings to be easy on capacitor consumption, a medium repper, heat sinks or tracking enhancers and finally a mix of locus coordinators and coll. Accelerator.