T3C, where to learn?


(Crymic) #1

Hi!
First of all sorry for my english, its not my best. :slight_smile:
I’m planning to skill (again) into a SC for deds, sites, exploration, ratting. For all sorf of PvE content. Which is the “best” for these activities?
I do know hybrids and gallente stuffs, and i tried the Proteus but it wasnt that great. I have points on missiles too. Armor, shield doesnt matter.
I would appreciate some fits too. :slight_smile:
Thank you!


Worth to take a T3Cruiser for PvE Action?!
(Do Little) #2

I think “best” is very subjective with these ships. They have different strengths and weaknesses and each will be “best” for someone.

If you’re having difficulty using the Proteus for PVE it’s more likely an issue with piloting skill or fit.

I recommend that you login to the test server Singularity, build a Proteus - it only costs a few hundred ISK on SISI and run some anomalies. Experiment with different subsystems and fits, get comfortable with the ship. If hybrids and drones are your thing - it is the right choice for you.

These ships were only released a month ago. I suspect even the experts are still refining their fits and figuring out what works best in different circumstances.

For me, I grew up flying Gurista ships for PVE and the Legion with Assault Optimization subsystem is a perfect fit with my skills and experience but I don’t expect those who followed a different path to make the same choice.


(Crymic) #3

Is there free isk on Sisi for these experiments?


(Zhilia Mann) #4

If you have literally anything you can sell it for standard prices. However, everything costs 100isk flat (unless a player posted the sell order). So… you really don’t need any.


(Crymic) #5

Thanks, ill try it :slight_smile:


(Zhilia Mann) #6

If I were to model a Proteus for exploration, it would look something like this:

[Proteus, explo]

Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum A-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Thermal Membrane

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II

250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Proteus Core - Augmented Fusion Reactor
Proteus Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Encoding Platform
Proteus Propulsion - Hyperspatial Optimization

Drones are whatever. Lows are expensive and geared towards kin/therm tanking. Honestly if you’re just doing that you can downgrade. If you throw in EM/exp you’re probably looking at the same basic quality range (C-type repper or better/C-type hardeners or B-type membranes or better). The magstabs… well, you have to kill things in a somewhat timely fashion.

I’m not in love with the range on the guns (22+33 with antimatter or 44+33 with lead). Damage is… fine. At least with the upgraded magstabs. Honestly, 658 is pretty decent if you’re able to stick to antimatter but the range envelope means you won’t be able to do so consistently.

As for some other options…

A Tengu might look something like this:

[Tengu, explo killer]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Missile Guidance Computer II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Pithum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

Tengu Core - Augmented Graviton Reactor
Tengu Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

As long as you’re up against Guristas/Serpentis, this thing is solid. 703 DPS to 56 or 550 DPS to 84. And that’s without playing around with scripts.

Tight on grid; unfortunately you have to use the expensive battery to make the Pith large work. Ballistic controls are somewhat optional here; you have some damage wiggle room on this fit. Deflection amps are dirt cheap; use deadspace.

Both of the above options really only shine against Serpentis/Guristas though. If you were to want to branch out against BR/Sansha, you could do worse than a HAM Loki these days. Sample fit might look like this:

[Loki, exploration armor missiles]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum A-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized EM Membrane

Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Salvager II

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Loki Core - Augmented Nuclear Reactor
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Launcher Efficiency Configuration
Loki Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

Drones are whatever again. Missile range is a touch on the low side; 49.4km with 576 DPS, but it’s fully selectable. So that’s at least decent.

Against Angels you could do worse than a HAM Legion. Perhaps something like this:

[Legion, explo HAM angel]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane

Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Legion Core - Augmented Antimatter Reactor
Legion Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Wake Limiter

Valkyrie II x5

Drones do matter here since the missile sub is short a launcher and long a drone bonus. A classic shield fit could also work; you could conceivably refit the Tengu above. You could also try a shield Loki:

[Loki, exploration shield missiles]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pithum A-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
10MN Afterburner II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
[Empty High slot]

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Core - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Launcher Efficiency Configuration
Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter

(That’s total spitballing. All these fits are to an extent, but that one was really thrown together.)

So, some themes to draw from.

  1. I’d really recommend three faction damage mods to get your site completion time down.
  2. Two damage application mods are a must; more are often helpful. Missile fits need them more than gun fits since you can mitigate damage reduction through piloting on a gun fit.
  3. Shield fits with a large cap battery can tank like no one’s business. Armor fits just don’t tank as hard so you might have to use higher end mods.
  4. Three slot tanks are usually all you have room for; choose carefully.
  5. I really like Sisters launchers. You don’t really need them for most purposes but I’m spoiled.

So… does that count as general guidance?


Loki for hi-lowsec exploration
(Crymic) #7

Thank you very much, great guide. Honestly, i didnt expected this. :slight_smile: Thanks again, ill try these for sure.


(DeMichael Crimson) #8

Personally I like having my Loki set up as a gun boat but it seems the DPS stats are better when using the launcher sub system. Also I like having my ships be Cap Stable. Years and years of doing exploration has given me quite a large stash of Faction / Deadspace mods to work with.

I know it’s expensive but this is the Loki Missile fit I came up with:

Sub-System slot
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Launcher Efficiency Configuration
Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter
Loki Core - Augmented Nuclear Reactor

High slot
5x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II -w- Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
1x Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher -w- Sisters Core Scanner Probes
1x ‘Smokescreen’ Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
1x Salvager II

Mid slot
2x Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
1x Gisti X-Type Large Shield Booster
1x Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
1x Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

Low slot
3x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
1x Syndicate Damage Control

Rig slot
2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
1x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Drone bay
3x Hammerhead II
2x Hobgoblin II


(Crymic) #9

It’s not cheap :smiley:
Maybe once, its way out of my reach atm.


(Nou Mene) #10

I would consider where you want to fly.
If you are thinking on running sites in different spaces against different factions, then try considering what kind of dmg types you want to do.
Ussually for this, missiles (loki, tengu, legion) are better, because you can switch dmg types.

Also remember you can hold up to 3 subsystems in the new subsystem cargo bay…

Best regards.


(Zhilia Mann) #11

I’m going to respectfully disagree with how this fit comes together if I might. Note that this is a long-standing difference in approach between DMC and I and all I can say for sure is that mine works better for me. It’s certainly worth looking at both concepts and deciding which one works better for any given person.

Let’s for a moment say that cost isn’t an issue and circle back to that later. The fit I proposed for a shield/missile Loki:

  1. Tanks about half what DMC’s does, and that’s only when looking specifically at it’s Angel tank. Otherwise it fares worse (but you could swap resistances if you wanted).
  2. Is just barely cap stable, in comparison to a pretty health overcap.
  3. Gets just slightly less damage (but that would equalize with a 100mil investment).
  4. Shoots CN missiles out to 43.7km, versus 25.3km on DMC’s fit. The range increase is proportional across ammo types.
  5. Has the option of increasing missile damage application with a script change.
  6. Has effectively no buffer. DMC’s damage control makes a huge difference there.

Even if cost weren’t an issue, I’d prefer to have the extra range versus all those other tradeoffs. Seriously. I’ve found over time that the best thing I can do for myself in a DED site is to dictate range, kite where needed, and move in for the kill only when I choose. For me, that is actually better damage mitigation than whatever extra tank you might throw on.

My regret on my posted fit is that you do have to swap hardeners (actually amplifiers, but same idea). DMC has overcome that by omni tanking, allowing him to, for instance, take a wormhole chain wherever and run sites there (provided sufficient ammo). That’s a pretty big advantage. However, ammo is an issue, and I find that even relatively “short” roams in a missile Loki have me running low. And I only carry one damage type since I know where I’m going. YMMV.

So then let’s address cost. The Legion fit I use most often runs under 900mil. The Loki as posted runs under 800mil. A couple of good drops should pay for that. I’d personally aim to keep total cost of fit under 1.5bil for most purposes.

With that in mind, the first thing I’d upgrade on my fit would be the afterburner. DED is great here; faction does make enough of a difference to be worthwhile. Gistum B is cheap (under 90 mil) so I’d likely go with that.

The next thing to go would be another faction damage control. Absolute no-brainer; more damage means faster site completion.

From there, maybe consider an omni tank. Swapping tank mods out for Pithum B-type booster, 2x Pith C boost amps, and 1 Gistum C-type invuln keeps us under budget and delivers a respectable tank of 468 omni sustained, but it’s no longer entirely cap stable. You still get 8.5 minutes, but you miss on stability. That’s worth it to me; we’re now at 1.42bil. I’d leave it at that.

If, however, I were going to drop 3bil on a fit, I’d start to look at some other changes. Omni tank stays; sacrifice a touch of range for more tank, add some damage application and you end up something like this:

[Loki, exploration shield missiles 3bil]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Missile Guidance Enhancer II

Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Heavy Assault Missile
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
[Empty High slot]

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Core - Augmented Nuclear Reactor
Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Offensive - Launcher Efficiency Configuration
Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter

Cap stable, 650 omni (still lower than DMC’s for sure), CN out to 40km, but the guidance enhancer is doing more for application. You can still bump application again by swapping scripts. 2.7bil, and about the only thing I wish I could do is upgrade the missile application mods to faction – but those don’t yet exist. Would be a no-brainer on this fit though.

Anyhow. There’s a comparison, point by point and some more logic for you to work with and decide what’s best for your circumstances.


(Zhilia Mann) #12

Oh, and since I mentioned my standard Legion but haven’t posted it in this thread yet:

[Legion, explo]

Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum A-Type Energized EM Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Thermal Membrane

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Legion Core - Augmented Antimatter Reactor
Legion Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Wake Limiter

Still loving this ship.


(DeMichael Crimson) #13

Yeah you’re right, I like being Cap stable with Omni Tank on Shield Resists since I tend to travel a lot and don’t really have the space to carry around an MTU with extra modules for refit on various sites. Also I use my PvE Combat fit to run the Level 4 Epic Arcs which is another reason for the Omni tank. And like I said earlier, I mainly fly my Loki as a Gun Boat using Barrage ammo for long distance and Hail ammo for short distance.

My piloting tactic is basically first lead the rat pack a bit to separate the small hull class Ewar NPC’s which are quickly destroyed, then launch drones and dive in close on the medium and large hull class ships. The extra tank enables the ability to get in close while taking minimal damage.

I’m old school and have gotten use to having an all-in-one exploration ship. Over the years I’ve refined my fit to be more PvE combat / travel ready while carrying a couple of small secure cans in my cargohold filled with Hacking / Scan mods as well as extra munitions, salvage and mining drones, just in case I happen to find some worthwhile Ore to quickly mine.

Usually I’ll scan and run the Combat sites, first signatures and then anomalies, then do a refit for Hacking if I’m inclined to do so. I also salvage the wrecks and cherry pick through the loot to gain materials for manufacturing.

I always fly with active cloak while traveling and scanning. When doing missions or combat sites, all defensive and prop mods are active, constantly moving away from the initial warp-in point and watching local / D-scan for any threats, always ready to warp to safe spots when needed.


(AgentFruitfly) #14

this works well for me. 929 dps, mobile depot to fit for travel (warp speed rigs & istabs = 4.8 align/7.8 au/sec), cap stable with either sb or mwd (not both). can carry alternate subs too, tho i haven’t had the need.

[Tengu, current cloaky probey ham plexer]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

50MN Microwarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Core - Augmented Graviton Reactor
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

Mid-grade Crystal Alpha
Mid-grade Crystal Beta
Mid-grade Crystal Gamma
Mid-grade Crystal Delta
Mid-grade Crystal Epsilon
Mid-grade Crystal Omega
Zainou ‘Snapshot’ Heavy Assault Missiles AM-703
Zainou ‘Deadeye’ Guided Missile Precision GP-803
Zainou ‘Deadeye’ Target Navigation Prediction TN-903
Zainou ‘Deadeye’ Rapid Launch RL-1003


(system) #15

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