Ticket was submited reply was use ingame bot report tool.
Btw inhuman tick perfect reactions are bots if you warp out in exact tick you get redbox then its bots
(1857645) is ticket id.
Im tryed to argue for them to investigate and were slaped over and over whit
Use ingame report feature.
No they were warping one by one.
Every time im pushed f1 for my fighters to tackle one directly perfectly in next tick target was in warp.
Fighters didnt even have time to shoot.
Its humanly imposible to do this in rapid succesion. Whit out being even grazed or get weapon timer.,
Im used this then for warpong out by targeting all that pointing me and rapidly presing f1 one by one perfectly warped off before fighters were able to shoot. It take 2 ticks for fighters to shot 1 tick to target 1 tick to shot.
Every single bomber warped out perfectli after 1 tick.
Its imposible that bombers were human since there iznt anybody who cam do that perfectly over and over.
Unfortunately I canât tell you all the details for obvious reasons (that would just compromise our methods), but please trust me on this - we can tell the difference and RMT is extremely blatant 90% of the time if not more. If you are a legit player, you have nothing to worry about. As for my personal experience, I did not have any false-positive RMT bans in a very long while.
You are not obliged to read/listen to anything that we are saying. All that we offer is a little insight into our every-day job and some of our experience to share with those who might be interested. I personally find all Team Secâs topics quite interesting, but again, this is not a mandatory conversation.
And as I mentioned before, we are definitely not going to discuss the certain cases, bans of some players and rumours that surround it.
Hmmm, really hard to say. To be honest, I have no idea how it works internally and how it might be compatible with our own tools, so I donât want to make assumptions or false promises.
I actually can provide a bit of inside with the bot reports, as Iâve been working on them for a while now. Super important to remember - none of the bans are issued just because of a certain number of reports that were accumulated for one person. I know that this is a common misconception in community, and I understand why, but the bot hunting process is much more complex than that.
People tend to overuse this feature in all the circumstances, I have mentioned it in my previous reply:
There is nothing we can do with other peopleâs assumptions or beliefs, but we have full control over what we are doing.
Actually, I can tell you even more. There are many players in game who have the characters named similarly (letters and numbers) and only have the number sequence different. Those characters used for all sorts of stuff, they are in the same corporation even, but not only they are used by different people sometimes, they have nothing to do with botting. This is something that can be seen only with our internal tools.
I understand how it can be misleading for lots of people.
A bit more insight. When we get the bot report, it is always getting checked eventually. The first check is usually brief, but it does not mean that itâs not thorough. Itâs just that the reported player has to hit certain red flags for us to unleash the full investigation. Those are easy to spot on the go. If I have even a hint of a doubt or if the reported behaviour falls in somewhat grey area, then I check this report with the full dedication. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
Thank you for the ticket ID, we will investigate this situation and take appropriate actions if needed.
Well this is the problem. You have hit the nail exactly on its head with this statement here:
And, not for nothing, but I wasnât too thrilled with your response to Ancantes. Yes, you did set him straight on the difference between input broadcasting and botting, but you also confirmed that he had found a cheater, in spite of his evidence being extremely lacking. And so now youâre in a situation where if you donât ban the guy, it wonât matter if heâs actually a cheater or not -Ancantes will believe that he is, and that CCP is unable/unwilling to do anything about him.
I agree, the situation could be explained by a normal game play mechanic, that not every player who is running 8-12-16 accounts, is violating the rules and policies by using 3rd party tools, but just simply has the setup and skill to do so. However, we still investigate those reports. And we do take actions if we spot a violation of our rules and policies. But because of that, that some players think they have encountered a bad guy, it does not mean he is a bad guy.
A report is filled and is investigated and no action is taken and the player still continues to fly with his 8-12-16 accounts. But what message does the reporting player get? He gets the message that the Team is incompetent and / or allows cheating.
What our players see in EVE Universe and what actually our Team looks at are two different things.
We are processing a huge amount of data, we see data, that is not available to normal players. We are going through logs with a magnifying glass, combing the desert to explain the behavior.
But you see what the perception of community is, Team Security does nothing about 1000% confirmed cheaters and only bans innocent players.
Now I am not saying we are perfect at what we do, no we are not and that is why we are constantly improving our methods of data processing, improving our tools and just simply constantly learning and developing to be better at what we do and more precisely to be more efficient.
If you take a look at the numbers of banned accounts for botting for the last year and the beginning of this year, the picture is clear, there are bots out there and we do catch them and we do deal with them. Botting goes hand in hand with RMT and Hacking and CreditCard fraud and we are working on all those fronts to make EVE safer. As I mentioned before, this is not something we can achieve in a week or a month, this is a long battle and compared to previous years, we are actually on the right track.
Again, I understand that the community sees the things a bit different, and that is fine, they donât have all the data available to them to paint a clear picture. And that is why WE are also doing this kind of things, like Security Panel, Dev Blog and Discord Q&A, we are showing presence and showing the data and information that we are able to share with the community that we are working hard but the task at hand is not something that can be solved in a short amount of time.
Thank you for the Devblog and the answers.
What I would be interested in - even if it is probably not a task area for Team Security: Are there statistics on how many insults, threats, etc. occurred in the chats and how they were sanctioned, if applicable?
How can I trust you when you morons banned me for TWO. â â â â â â â . YEARS. And your GM responses were horrible and insulting. I was blacklisted from my alliance because you idiots couldnât do your job properly, and rather than saying âYo, homeslice, whatâs up with these fishy transactions?â you banned me. I canât extract any SP because CCP Falcon had a personal grudge against me from the ISBoxer days, and I was blacklisted from my alliance because nobody on the team had the braincells to go âHey mate, wanna explain this â â â â ?â rather than just rubber stamp the ban and run off to eat pickled shark for lunch.
So again, why should anyone trust you, when the constant false positives, the horrible GM interactions, and your team lead allegedly stealing IRL cash, would make anyone hesitant on trusting you for anything more important than mowing the lawn with scissors?
hi! of course, my pleasure 
I am afraid we can only provide answers regarding to bots and RMT stuff, as we donât really deal with chats, threats and such⌠Sometimes we do, but itâs more of an exception, and those issues are usually processed within the standard means.
But I can tell you how it works in general, if you are interested? Nothing specific though, as we canât discuss cases.
Just something i was thinking of reading through the blog.
While there are sites where folks sell shops & isk etc for money, i was wondering if the folks that look for stuff out of game, is due to affiliates like markee dragon etc selling plex on their websites and such.
Its not an easy answer as it touches on multiple things that are set in place so RMT is very much possible in EVE and if very profitable compare to some countries and their economies.
For starters, you can trade everything and anything in EVE, so it makes it possible to transfer not only ISK but items to any other player in New Eden.
Second, a loss matters in EVE. Some players are not willing to spend the time in the game to replace or even get their new shiny ship that they just finished the skills for but rather pay with real money.
While it is possible to get some ISK via PLEX officially, many many first time ISK buyers are actually new players or the ones that recently started playing. Many of those first time buyers did actually not know that it is against the Rules. And that they are doing more harm by purchasing ISK from the black markets.
Some of them we catch, some of them report them-selfâs to us but the problem is, that those new players actually did not know that its against the rules and that there is an official way to get some ISK.
Now I am not speaking about older players who know exactly what they are doing and that they are trying to get away with it. They donât. For cheaper ISK they risk their own very valuable accounts that get banned and are out of the game forever.
And this the problem. By purchasing ISK from the black market, the players are fueling the botting, the hacking and the credit card fraud. Because for some organizations selling ISK on the black market is a huge opportunity that comes with huge reward and they are just here to generate that ISK to be sold on those multiple sites and markets.
This is how the market works, where is a demand for cheap ISK, there will be a supply. No matter what, people are always following the market.
BUT, there is one BUT. Our community is AMAZING. Those first time purchasers (as I mentioned new players or the ones that started playing very recently) make those purchases, not knowing what they are doing and that is happening before they interact with other players in terms of joining a Corporation or Alliance.
Only then, when the character is checked via ESI by one of the recruiters, the recruiters see some fishy transactions and ask the player about it, it comes to light what the player did and the recruiter explains all the details how this is RMT and is a violation. And the player creates a ticket to confess and to provide all the details about it.
By this time its already too late. ISK was generated (by botting, hacking or CC fraud) was transferred to the new players character and the bad guys got real money for that, the only thing our Team can do is react to something that has already happened. Find the distributors of the bad ISK, find the suppliers of the ISK and uncover a node that is operating just for the sake of selling ISK. We ban them. But they will come back, not the next day, or the day after, but they will come back, because for them, selling ISK on the black market is a great business opportunity.
So to sum it up, I just think its a general misinformation or information that is not easy available for the new players, as they do not realize how much damage they do by clicking âPurchaseâ on one of those black market sites.
We should work on that, to inform our players better. Hopefully in the near future we will be able to achieve that.
How much of an effect do these bans have on PCU?
this has been an interesting read. Thanks for the thread. A couple of things/questions whateverâŚâŚ
2
This really intrigued me. Isnât part of the issue is that you cant know for sure this is the case? You investigate, you conclude its bad behaviour, you issue a ban, receiver of the ban issues a ticket, you say you are confident in your decision, receiver gives up. Is that actually definitive?
Seems to me that can only say that there are no false positives because no-one has successfully provided you with information that satisfies you that you were wrong. Whether or not there have been any false positives remains to be seen.
Which raises some questions.
FIrstly. How open are you guys to the possibility that in some cases you are wrong? I get that a huge amount of tickets must come in from the bad guys and you have to deal with all kinds of crap from people that are rule breakersâŚâŚ.That cant be easyâŚâŚ. Which i guess leads to the impersonal, cookie cutter, cold and decisive replies to tickets we have seen examples of. It seems very much in process and in toneâŚâŚâŚguilty until proven innocent.
I totally get you cant be super nice to 100 asshats just incase 1 of those 100 is an honest guy thats just fallen victim to âcomputer says botâ but just it have to swing so far the other way.
And secondly. If you could provide any insight into how you deal with stuff when tickets are issued. for example are you required to get a second opinion? third opinion? @GM_Aisling if you issue a ban and the person submits a ticket does someone like @GM_Stinger then review that as a second pair of eyes? Id hate to think if i ever had to appeal a suspension or ban i was appealling to the same person that issued it and their âprideâ of not wanting to admit they might be wrong.
And thirdly just coz im interested in security team dramaâŚâŚâŚ. Do you guys ever disagree. You guys made reference to some of this being nuanced âŚâŚâŚis it so nuanced that 2 of you can look at the same case and have different views on it? OR do you find that if one of you says âbanâ. all of you say âbanâ. Appreciate you cant get into specifics so ive asked this in as general a way as i could think of.
Well nothing new here frankly from a far east game owner to see number of bots nearly doubled from 2019 years back and went 5x+ the numbers that were prior to 2019.
God damn CCP why out of all companies had to be bloody pearl abyssâŚ
3 years after EvE changed hands we seen bans from botting and rmt WAYYYY under 10k per year to a 70k.
If anyone seen me back there on twitch the moment i saw the news of pearl sinking their greedy teethes in EvE i was afraid for the game becoming next Metin 2, where there is no point of talking to anyone as no-one will answer.
And hunting ishtars/gilas etc is more rng than setting a crow as insta lock on a gate and catching shuttles⌠you will have more luck doing that.
Every corp harbouring bots should effectively;y get a -10 trill isks on wallet and alliance -100
thats dangerously close to âif you donât test you wont findâ
I assumed as much. I had theories if most the rmt was actually new players searching for out of game stuff more often than vets
I can speak from personal experience, that is not what happens. Your ticket goes straight back to the same guy, who gives you nothing but copy paste and responses and completely refuses to move your ticket to another person, even after, in my case, I uploaded my entire banking statements for both of my cards, and my PayPal account, and provided multiple reasons as to why would be completely stupid for me to rmt, in my case because I have multiple legacy ships in my possession, including legacy capitals, and a Titan from pre 2012.
Great news item! I really learned a lot about the security issues around Eve Online and your extensive efforts to protect the game and its players.
I wonder if the crux of your message could reach a wider audience than those who might notice, click, and read this ephemeral news item. Perhaps a periodic pop-up or other style of notification in game that encapsulates the last section: FINAL WORDS: HOW CAN YOU HELP FIGHT BOTS AND RMT?
Repetition helps. I wouldnât mind seeing an occasional reminder in game, e.g., during login: "Never buy ISK or items from third parties, and donât do business with those involved. Once discovered, anything you purchase through RMT will be removed from your account and you will be warned or banned; you will end up with neither the ISK or items you purchased, nor money you spent, while the seller walks away with their profits.
If you suspect botting, use the In-Game Bot Reporting tool as detailed earlier; if you suspect RMT, report it through a support ticket. Include as many details as possible: character names, characterâs activities, reasons to think why you suspect them, and anything else you can think of."
Keep it fresh in more playersâ minds how this type of thing harms everyoneâs Eve Online experience.