Then people will just have to tag up all the way instead of to -2.0 or so. This would add a further cost to criminal activity, but not change the underlying system of social interaction around it.
And if you removed a means for improving sec status, it would result in players grinding out the remaining methods. Removing all means to improve sec status would be too steep a punishment for criminal activity.
Ok, I’ve got it:
Remove faction naval pursuit of outlaws
Modify the kill rights system:
a. Kill right duration extended from 30 days to indefinite
b. Kill right is consumed when an isk value is reached, not a single ship destruction
c. Isk value is determined by the estimated value of what the criminal destroyed. If the criminal failed to secure the kill, no kill right is issued. The the standing loss and ship loss due to CONCORD will suffice as punishment.
d. As long as there is isk value associated with the kill right, the kill right can be activated. The criminal has the option of paying a fine to clear the remaining isk value.
No other changes need to be made to the kill right system or bounty system. Kill rights can still be made available or sold to everyone. Even if the criminal bought their own kill right using an alt, they would still need to incur too large a loss for it to be worthwhile.
This would basically prevent low-sec PvPers from ever visiting high-sec again.
How so? Unprovoked attacks in low-sec are not criminal acts, unless it’s on a pod. If the pod kill is of low value, the criminal can simply pay the 10k fine to clear the kill right. If the pod was worth substantially more, then the criminal consented to this when disabling the safety.
I’m not sure which player group(s) you’re trying to benefit with these proposals.
I’m trying to resolve the following scenario: I am a miner, and I have no kill rights. Then I get suicide ganked, and have a kill right on a criminal. I now know that this individual is a criminal and a threat, and would like to be able to address this threat using PvP.
Under the current system, what are my options? If the criminal is not an outlaw or in a war-eligible corporation, my options are:
Avoid (not PvP)
Leverage the kill right
I grabbed two lossmails from zkillboard to use as a reference, with a covetor loss valued at 39m, and a destroyer loss at 9m.
Is it meaningful to inflict a 9m loss on the criminal after they inflicted a 39m loss on me? In my opinion, no.
I’m trying to come up with a system that will encourage more PvP, while maintaining a ganker’s ability to gank. If a criminal ganks me for a 40m loss, I should be able to hire a mercenary to defend me against that same criminal for an equivalent amount.
These ideas are awful. It is a common high-sec-mindset mistake thinking that “sec status equals being a PVP/evil/griefer pilot” take your pick. In reality, it means nothing.
I encourage you to actually go work to get to -10 in lowsec and farm those Clone tags yourself to get back to 0 by bribing CONCORD, then come back and read your proposal and let us all know how your terrible ISK-value killright idea goes.
The grand majority of gankers already gank while in outlaw status, meaning that they can already be attacked by anyone at any time. The few who gank as a “side activity” and normally maintain a workable security status are susceptible to KR enforcement in its current form (you simply have to wait for them to fly something more expensive as part of their non-ganking gameplay).
Meanwhile, players in low-sec fight for lots of other reasons than just killing someone for the lulz. They still need to destroy pods as part of fleet warfare, which is technically considered criminal activity. With your idea, these players are going to have permanent consequences in high-sec, despite not being gankers or criminals.
It’s pretty clear from your imprecise terminology you do not understand the mechanics you are trying to propose changes to.
You’ve already been corrected once:
And then you somehow think “sec status == criminal acts only” (hint: it is not):
And somehow think “killright” is tied to “criminal timer”:
No. Change the way you think: you are a badass pilot, you just temporarily do not have a criminal timer, and waht makes you badass is you’re not afraid to get one.
They’re only criminal when they have a timer, and everyone is a threat. The latter being a core principle in eve. You can view everyone else as waiting to be a victim of your revenge, should they cross you.
You can gank them too. Re-read above: “You are a badass pilot, you just temporarily do not have a criminal timer.” Go get a criminal timer. You’re cutting yourself and your list short. Stop thinking like prey and become the predator.
The theme I’m seeing is “grow, adapt, change your mindset”. You can either:
Change your mindset, and how you approach the game, and you can do this today; or
Wait for CCP to maybe make changes, and those changes sure as hell won’t be informed by anything on the forums. Good luck with the gamble.
You can do this today, reach out to pilots who seem competent gankers and offer them a private bounty to gank your target. You don’t need CCP’s help to do this today.
I rarely use dscan repeatedly while mining. The point at which dscan picks up a fleet of Catalysts zipping towards you within 14 AU is already too late…especially if they are already on the move during your 3 second cycle. I only use dscan frequently if there are already potentially hostile ships within 14 AU…to focus in and see where they might be hanging out.
It is simpler just to have all potential gankers set to red status. That way you know when there are half a dozen in the system…without having to press anything. A sudden spike in the number of people in Local is another clue, as is having some seemingly harmless gank scout move in close. There’s lots of cues…but so many just ignore them or are too busy watching Netflix. I have zero sympathy at all for AFK people…in fact AFK-ers cant be ganked often enough.
He did have one good change in his proposal: eliminating faction navy pursuit. Without faction navies, outlaws wouldn’t have to be either docked up or constantly in warp all the time, which would actually allow players opportunities to attack them. Faction navy pursuit is a very self-defeating game mechanic, because it makes outlaws act in such a way that they’re impossible to catch and kill. The only benefit it has is creating the illusion of safety for certain players who feel that they have additional “protection,” which might make them rage slightly less harder on the forums. Otherwise, the net benefits of this game feature are pretty much negative for everyone.
Ya know, as a miner that only occasionally dabbles in pvp, I get irritated when the idea that miners are helpless babies that need daddy ccp to come save them from the mean ole gankers keeps coming up. I’ve managed to mine for the last 4 years without getting ganked. Sure I’ve had close calls but I take precautions, I actually think about where I am and what I’m doing rather than hurrr durrr exhumer go brrr. I’m fully in the camp that more pvp not less is needed. I say let all the fools mining in untanked mackenaws in .5 space keep dying. It really helps my superior miner mentality flourish.
It is a common high-sec-mindset mistake thinking that “sec status equals being a PVP/evil/griefer pilot”
I don’t think this. I assume that a pilot who has a negative sec status has committed enough criminal acts to warrant that status.
I encourage you to actually go work to get to -10 in lowsec
No. I don’t want to grind tags, which is precisely why I don’t commit criminal acts (regularly).
Go get a criminal timer. You’re cutting yourself and your list short. Stop thinking like prey and become the predator.
I think this is the Achilles heel to your argument: I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect me to commit a criminal act in order to defend myself from a character that has a history of ganking, hence my killright suggestion. While no killright != no threat, an existing killright with a value attached would give me lengthy recourse against a known criminal with positive sec status, without needing to go criminal myself.
The grand majority of gankers already gank while in outlaw status
This is a good point that I should have considered, which renders my proposal mostly obsolete. If most criminals can already be attacked, then options to defend yourself already exist. The fact that this debate still rages implies that these options aren’t being exercised.
I guess the only solution is to hire site security when mining, with a suicide detachment for non-outlaws. But, if you’re going to go through this much trouble, why bother with highsec?
