I’m not much of a miner and I’m not planning on training in one anytime soon.
Not true - they not only gave them access to more ships, they also gave them access to more skills, and, most importantly, allowed their SP to go far above 5 million if they bought Alpha Injectors (so revenue for CCP through micro-transaction instead of subscription) or, indeed, through all the daily log-in gifts and skilling sprees. 5 million SP is merely the cap on simple training.
As for Venture yield - you are very wrong. The Venture is, as others have argued in this thread, an excellent choice of ship for some roles, where risk, agility, etc, matter. I use it, for example, for popping into wormholes. But to suggest a Venture is anywhere close to a barge for yield is nonsense, especially when you consider the ore hold is only 5000 cubic metres - factor in the time taken to trog back to the station and offload - when even a Level I Retriever can carry five times that.
My Alpha characters can and do mine, in their Ventures, enough to meet their individual needs for sporadic T1 production. It is the characters on my Omega account who are able to do more serious mining. As I say, I am not convinced that Alphas need barges, and as someone who runs a mix of Omega and Alpha, I would not benefit from it personally. But it does lead me to wonder about whether the skewing of Alphas towards combat is beneficial in the long run, given they are no longer just “trial accounts” despite all those on these fora who keep making that assertion.
None of which changes anything in the principle, only in the details.
I’m sorry, why are we factoring that in? If they are serious about mining they will be taking part in their fleet operation.
Why would you ever do that given it’s illegal to run an alpha at the same time as an Omega and your Omega’s can mine more?
I have never mined once in a fleet, and never will, but I am fairly serious about mining. Take off your blinkers my friend and recognise that there are a multitude of play styles that are not only valid, but practised, by more people than I suspect you realise.
Never said that I was running them at the same time. Again, you do not understand alternative play styles. With Alphas as well as my the three characters on my Omega account, I can have characters of different races, flying different ships, with different fits, in widely separated physical locations. You see, I play this game for fun, not to make ISK. I want to enjoy myself, do what I fancy doing at any particular time. This way I have a very broad palette with which to play.
Then you are not serious about mining because you are passing up massive amounts of yield. There are a multitude of playstyles that are valid & practiced, but that doesn’t make them serious about mining.
But mining is mining, and you have said your omega is mining trained. So using your alphas to mine is silly, since your omega could do the same, if you are having fun using a smaller ship then you could do that on your omega also. I mean, if you want to be silly go right ahead, but don’t pretend that it is sensible in the slightest.
I sometimes wonder whether you are Dr Jekyll to @Merin_Ryskin’s Mr Hyde. The only perspective or play style that matters is yours. Please, do not tell me what is sensible, or how to enjoy myself, or how to enjoy Eve. As I say, I suspect there are more people like me than you imagine. Please, get over yourself. It is clear that you think you are the towering intellect on these fora, but you really, really are not.
Anyway, must dash, don’t want to be distracted from my Orca’s very serious mining for long. Toodle pip.
You clearly didn’t bother actually reading my post and instead just read 5 words and made a bunch of assumptions about what the rest of it said.
It is not for you to decide what is “serious.” It is not for you to decide what is “sensible”. It is not for you to decide what is “silly.”
Doubtless you will now reply, given your obsession with having the last word, but rest assured, I will not be bothering with a response, because I have said all I need to say on this subject, and, at the end of the day, your opinions are, to me, utterly irrelevant.
Take care. TTFN.
Someone choosing to ignore 50% of potential yield per account is clearly not serious.
Someone choosing to deliberately do the same activity but in a less optimal manner is clearly not being sensible.
These are not opinions, these are clear facts.
Now, can silly be fun, of course it can. But that doesn’t make it less silly. And failing to acknowledge that you are being silly is just a lack of self awareness.
Why not?
CCP explicitly didn’t want alphas mining significant amounts of ores.
And alpha players don’t need barges to try out mining. They’ve got vents, cruisers and battleships.
Vents are a frigate level miner. They are supposed to give low isk/hour. Same as tech1 frigs give low isk/hour in missions.
Unless you goto lowsec where vents can get 10-15mil/isk hour on dark orchre. And that warp core stab + quick align time compliments low sec mining very well.
When i mine in lowsec I’m not using barges or exhumers. I’m using a fleet of vents.
No they SHOULDN’T. At least not meaningful amounts in hi-sec.
I don’t know why you think they should.
Depends on the ore. You’ve got dark orchre which is triple veld at the moment, or you could even get tallasonite in pochven which is quadruple.
So your plan isn’t to fix the bounties problem but to make the mineral problem just as bad?
Well, they’re wrong about not wanting alphas to mine a lot.
People don’t usually think of cruisers and battleships to mine. And ventures don’t mine as much compared to barges, which means new players all rat, which means we have too many ratters like we do now, and all of the inflation CCP hates.
Imagine if alphas were restricted to frigs for combat and everything stays the same. Alphas would just quit because they have no career choices.
Indeed. But barges could mine more with less risk and alphas who like mining would then be able to be happy.
Now that’s a bad choice. If you have a fleet of barges and a booster permanently aligned to a structure you would be fine.
Because mining should be a viable career choice, and alpha miners are forced to convert to ratting.
Dark ochre is possibly hard to find, and pochven isn’t lowsec.
The mineral situation is fine. The Vexor for example has near doubled in price. CCP should nerf the guys running 30 man exhumer fleets with 2 rorqual boosts, which mine 50 times one single alpha miner would mine in a mining barge.
And yet they are.
But they DO have choices. Just not much of a mining choice.
And if they all quit we’d lose exactly nothing.
Why do we want mining alphas to be happy? What we want is for them to want more, which is clearly what has been achieved per all the whining.
What you’re describing is how to mine with no one in local, and then warping out the moment someone appears in system.
Lowsec is more populated than null. You’re gonna have to learn to mine with people in local, cloaked and ready to bump, or with people on d-scan.
If you keep warping on and off grid with barges someones going to catch you when you’re warping back on grid or decloak and bump you. And you’re going to be attractive enough for them to put effort and time into trying to catch you, which means frequent interruptions. Barges also have trouble getting through gate camps to get to anoms.
If you don’t have a defence fleet, vents and expedition frigs are better off, less likely to be hunted, caught and quicker at getting on and off grid.
It isn’t.
The reason we are being starved is because the mineral situation is very much not fine.
And it’d be far worse if alphas had barges. Alphas abused distribution agents. They abuse ratting. They abused faction warfare. They the kinda abused the Gila and VNI. The last thing we want to do is allow them to abuse mining.
But you wouldn’t get one single alpha.
You’d get bots. Bots. Bots. Bots and more bots.
Meanwhile there isn’t anything wrong with multi-boxing omegas.
Not alphas. Also it hardly feels poetic mining with a battleship because you’re unloading from cargo every mining cycle.
That’s like saying “you have all the political freedoms except freedom of speech”.
We lose people. We lose content, we lose future content.
Your thoughts are quite messed up in that second sentence. But for the first sentence, when alphas are happy, they upgrade to omega. If they earn isk, they come on nullsec roams with NPSI, they give content.
Seriously? I know some lowsec systems that never have over a single person in them over deep into Amarr.
Is because of some reason we are not sure of, but not because we have too many minerals. The word was “redistribution”. They’re putting more minerals where they would create content to create content or something, not because we have too many of them.
No, it’s the people who abused all these things, not the alphas. They may have abused alphas, but they also abuse omegas. They abuse everything because that’s how eve works.
That’s CCP’s problem. They solve the bots, alphas get the barges.
Nothing against the rules, which means it’s right. But then, aren’t you a fan of having less minerals? Maybe just nerf these multi boxing omegas so we DO have less?
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Again, no barges for alphas… simple as that. If an alpha wants a barge, they can upgrade to Omega. I’m perfectly fine with my alpha toon not having a mining barge, and only having the venture.
Yes alphas are mining in battleships and cruisers.
They can mine longer than cov/hulks before unloading.
What has political freedom got to do with alphas in eve online?
No we don’t. Farming isn’t content.
They are sitting semi-afk in safe space. No content was lost from taking level4’s away from alphas. None is missed by not letting them mine in barges.
If they get out of hi-sec that may change. But that’s more likely to happen in vents than barges.
No they don’t.
Alphas upgrade cause they want more. They must be the opposite of happy with what they have.
They also don’t go out and create content. You don’t need isk to join many npsi fleets or even any major nullsec group.
And even if you did, you can get the isk ratting or running abyss.
Yes seriously.
The vast majority of nullsec is empty. There’s a graph somewhere showing the distribution of players.
No. Go back and read the dev blog. It explicitly states there was too much mining and not enough destruction. The scarcity phase focused on mining.
We are still technically in the scarcity phase. But the redistribution phase has begun before the scarcity phase has ended.
Alphas are abused more because you can just create a new account for free.
There was a massive wave of botting as soon as alphas were created. Thats explicitly why the VNI, faction warfare and mission access changes happened.
Again, go read the dev blogs.
You really have no idea do you…
But they haven’t solved the bots. Nor have they solved logging multiple alphas in. So, amongst other reasons, alphas don’t get barges. And probably never will.
We can, and are, addressing minerals without touching multi-boxing (which doesn’t need to be stopped).
Uh huh. So they’re better than mining barges? (that was a genuine question, not a rhetorical question. answer it please)
Analogy.
They don’t just do farming. It’s not like alphas who mine don’t do PVP. Also, ganking them is content.
People don’t bother going to lowsec to get 1m more isk/h. They might for 5m more isk/h.
They should be happy with what they have but not happy enough. If they don’t like the game they have no reason to subscribe and believe they’d get more fun.
You do need an isk income. Also PVP is more fun when you ship is as good as the enemy’s.
They might like mining more than ratting. Give them that choice.
Was talking about lowsec.
So a mining barge could just Thera into some nullsec place and start mining.
But getting more alphas some more choice is worth some more ore. Also, they’re not gonna mine as much as exhumer fleets, so we’re fine.
Yes. Well, the wave of botting was worth it. I joined as an alpha, and probably wouldn’t have bought the game if it was subscription only. More alphas mean more players, and more players that stick in the community.
Yes, there’s bots. But CCP is really good at stopping bots and have done a great job so far. We should trust them.
It’s difficult to log multiple alphas in. I have no idea how, so that shows how difficult it is. They have solved a lot of the bots, and are doing better as we speak.
Well, multi boxing is generating more minerals than alphas mining. Now, tell me why multiboxing is better than alphas mining.
Multiboxing = Omega accounts
Omega accounts = 
= CPP create new stuff
only alphas in game = RIP Game
alphas = 
omegas = 
Seriously, pushing for more than you already have, on your free trial account, is coming across as significantly ungrateful.
Multiboxing=one person a lot of money=inequality=waaaahhhhh
(actually, look at how hacknet turned out, a lot of inequality caused everybody to just go away)
Alphas mining=more new players=more omegas=more $
I’m Omega. That’s one thing.
Also, free to play is gaining steam and CCP and you should probably think of eve as free-to-play with omega as an advantage towards higher tier ships (not the second mining ship in the game).
Abusive parents say that to their children too, and I think you might want to watch Oliver Twist and “HERE COMES THE CHILD WHO WANTS MORE”
That is a terrible analogy. No alpha is in the “New Eden Poverty zone” and they already have a wealth of opportunities.
Poor parenting also comes from not teaching children about reasonable expectations, instead giving them everything they want.
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