You sure sound like you’re scared and afraid of what others want for the game and your accusations are very simple-minded.
1 Like
I said a group like the NPC corp. My apologies for not telegraphing I meant ‘social corp’.
You said it was a problem to exclude certain gameplay from players. It isn’t. It is done all the time.
A social corp that excludes structure ownership is perfectly compatible with the game.
Social corps are immune to wars. There is no risk PIRAT or CODE can wardec them. They would be perfectly safe from wars and “normal” group PvP in highsec.
I think this is not really true. All it takes is a couple Alphas in cheap T1 cruisers to be able to kill pretty much every ship you can possibly encounter in Highsec, no matter how many SP the pilot may have. All that takes is a little bit of organisation and the courage to try.
Of course, in that case you usually need superior numbers to kill many of the more experienced players, but that’s what corps should be there for (and usually aren’t right now, at least in highsec). Usually, highsec wardeccers won’t come after you in 20-man gangs. They maybe fly in packs of 3 to 5 people. If you then have a standing fleet and your PvP stash close by, then you actually can surprise them.
But like I said: Even if you really don’t have the means to effectively fight back, you can still play your game while they are around, simply by being a bit careful and perceptive. It doesn’t matter how many SP they have and how shiny their ship is if they don’t even catch you. But again, to learn this, some pressure is required.
Wake up, it is 2018. now and people when pay something they want to do what they want and not what they need.
Lets do it this way lets Alpha accounts do “what they need”, and Omegas what they want.
No ? We can not fore even Alphas to do that. You can not force anyone to do “what they need”, today you have to allow the level of involvement that the player wants.
You are projecting… I don’t have problems with ganking… Last time I lost a ship to a gank was like 6months ago and I was drunk, sleepy and careless… even then I almost escaped with the MWD cloak trick, the only reason I didn’t was because my cloak module didn’t activated when I clicked it so I can tell you that I have no problems at all getting around high-sec… you guys love to project on ppl just to make their words less valuable that yours how pathetic
This is a silly notion.
I want to declare war on you and shoot you into bits at every corner. I pay 15 bucks a month for this, so I should be able to do that, right?
I do not disagree with this, however you make it sound so much easier then it really is.
But then you say this:
Which shows you get it, because in the main that is not what exists in hisec, because everyone is in avoidance mode, the objective is to develop the will to fight. And let me be blunt all they need is two to three logi and you will not kill them.
Here is the issue, rewards in hisec are very low, you have build it up over time and effort. A ship which is easy to replace in nullsec due to risk reward, is not the same in hisec, you lose it then it is a huge amount of work gone. So they don’t risk it, and then resent having to do something less efficient in a war dec that they cannot end by their actions.
Also in other areas of space you know who is an enemy or not, unless you are Provi of course, so that person in a tackle frigate that comes up to you is not a threat, oh look, he got out of his ship, oh dear it is now a war decker, he gets back in his ship and points them and in comes the fleet to blow up their shiny. Hisec, it has issues that need to be balanced around.
Well so you’re getting your wish… normal corps are immune to wardecs and corps with a structure are not… don’t tell me you want the actual corp system that already is a bit limited to become even more limited…
It is indeed about what they need. With so many players can you be sure that they want everything and anything. You for example don’t even play the game. You’d rather want to see it die before you play it. Of course you’d say it’s about what you want and not what you need. Just makes sense when you’re being cute again.
At the same time do players complain when they cannot jump into the largest battles and TiDi runs at it’s maximum for hours and we’ve seen another huge battle this year (during the summer period no less), all while the game only saw peaks of 30k players a day. Yet do players keep arguing how this game would need more players. They’re not thinking straight. If EVE would double it’s current number of active players (35k) to 70k players, would we see a lot more TiDi and CCP would have to start nerfing the game in ways many will dislike.
It’s only dumb to want more and more, without thinking of what the consequences of it will be.
Difficult questions will have to be answered and hard decisions will have to be maked .
It’s not my job, nor yours. The CCP will have to stop hiding behind the player and CSM and take ownership and start working and solving the problems.
OK.
Well at that point you are asking them to drop themselves into something way above themselves to have a structure for example. I mean I don’t even bother having a structure in hisec.
Yes and they play for a while longer but still get bored and leave…, though I hope CCP enables it so that they can ally in wars.
Of course it is. Nothing lasts forever and EVE has exceeded all expectations by the very fact it has survived on a subscription model. CCP must have been doing some dark satanic ritual to make that happen. Or just had a bunch of masochists playing it 
Look at the MMOs that have been and gone in the last 15 years - Most of them have been WoW clones or poorly thought out ideas. The closest to succeeding that I can think of was SWTOR - a WoW clone for sure, but was (and still is) pretty damn good.
EVE has survived by being fundamentally different and not wrapping it’s players in cotton wool. The old meme still applies even now:
The meme used to be an advert for EVE, but now it’s a complaint? Yet the game has outlived two of the 3 MMOs on there. Hell I bet half of the players on here can’t even tell me what POTBS is without the help of google…
If EVE loses sight of what it is and forgets why it is so popular with it’s playerbase, then it’s demise will accelerate even faster. MMOs in general are dying. Most people would rather play Battle Royale’s, MOBAs or survival sandboxes than EVE. Don’t get me wrong I love EVE, but to think that it will continue forever is just lying to yourself.
A single blackbird can take two or three logis out of the equation. Like you say, the crux is developing the will to fight. And that may never develop if there’s the notion that this game is supposed to be played without ever fighting.
That’s also not true. Sure, grinding up your way to that shiny complex fit Rattlesnake is a lot of work, but so is grinding for your ratting carrier in null. If you start out in null flying a Navy Vexor or what have you, then rewards aren’t that stellar. And again: If you are being smart about it, then you won’t ever lose your fancy mission Rattler in High. You don’t need to fight wardeccers to avoid being killed, but if you want to, then replacing a stash of PvP fit T1 cruisers should not be a problem for a highsec corp. If it is, then the corp is ■■■■ and needs to go away.
But in order to learn how to not lose your pimped up mission Rattler, you kind of need to have lost your mission Drake before. Otherwise - how would you know that you even need to learn to deal with things like that.
The first multi-player game I ever played was a MUD. You know, those ASCII-based text adventures with You're in a forrest. You can go North, East and South. Surprisingly the one I’ve started with is still around and my account and my old tools are still working 28 years later.
2 Likes
The total difference argument, always fall back into heaven or hell.
Hisec should be the softer side of the game, which allows people to develop, it should not be an easy pickings field for old players. so what you are saying is that applies to all areas of the game equally, I disagree.
No. There should be many flavours of corps with different risk and reward profiles so that pilots with all interests can find a place for themselves in New Eden. A social, safer corp is one of those.
This stop-gap measure is perfectly adequate giving non-structure holding corps immunity from wars. It isn’t ideal though, and I hope whatever permanent system CCP comes up with is more nuanced and provides both safety and they opportunity to take risks as a group together to compete with the rest of New Eden.
That doesn’t seem especially fair - if you are immune from wars, you shouldn’t be able to join one or start one - but we may get that in the short-term solution, we’ll see.
If players are bored, they can throw their hat into the ring and take on some risk. Or join up with an established corp or alliance to help ease the transition. Player-owned structures need to be attackable and destroyable. This is fundamental to this game. I see no way around this at all and no indication CCP is considering that. We can get rid of wars altogether and make shooting structures a suspect offence, but this would be even worse for the ‘little guy’ you want to protect.
If players are bored with Eve, it’s only because they are cutting themselves off from most of the game, which is a full-time PvP game. I acknowledge there is some friction spots getting players into that PvP game, especially now given the growing power gap, but the solution isn’t to give invulnerable structures or capital ships or whatever to players to keep them playing.
That is why I am pushing for something that they can undock on to blow up to change attitude.
Again I don’t disagree, but to be honest the example I gave you is why hisec risk is different and perhaps even greater to nullsec risk in terms of that Rattlesnake.
They have to be able to develop in wars and that would be one way, and fairness does not come into it, don’t forget we are talking about high SP, high resource bitter vets who are the main war deckers.
I agree that structures need to be attackable and destroyable, no question on that, I just feel that currently very few people in hisec can defend them, that being said if enough get cleaned out now which seems to be happening perhaps people who really want them will gang up to defend them. This is something that I am hoping for.
The risk for that new corp is too great at this point, CCP may need to make hisec more interesting if that power gap reaches its logical end, though it will not be as easy as the Chinese server due to TZ complicating it.
The meme is also totally inaccurate, most MMO’s actually get as high or higher in game skill than EVE does, it just only happens for the 1% of players that raid. And LOTR still exists, just released an expansion even I believe. As does WOW, Not even sure which one POTBS is, not an abbreviation I’m familiar with.
So yeah… Using bad memes is not a good argument.
Roll back war dec to 5 years ago, with the active watchlist and most will be happy. Some of these new ideas for a new war dec system are out right scary.
CCP has a history of screwing up new revamps, so players should be careful what they wish for regarding a new war dec system. It’s very possible it will be worse for both sides than the current mechanic.