Actually that mentality has always been there, for example I was operating in Stain and we infiltrated the group that was AFK cloaky camping us and they were playing world of tanks while waiting for someone to come out and play the game so they could then drop on them before going back to world of tanks.
It has been pretty much like this for as long as I have been playing for a certain type of player.
When I get bored I just load up Shadow of War on brutal settings as Eltarial and blast away at it, works for me. Actually come to think of it, time for a session of that…
CCP is changing, hisec changed to this at least three to four years ago.
That is change, it is something to be embraced and developed.
New players, did you note that I said salvage behind others and inject, that meant get into a better situation a lot faster. In effect anyone who is new is better of running to null getting developed there in terms of SP, ISK and assets and then coming back to hisec as a filthy relaxed casual.
Difference is these are guys still actively playing Eve while doing other things which has been around forever, one of the great things of Eve.
What I’m talking about is the people like myself who close Eve and stop playing, the same as the guys who get war decked and log off. There is so many good games out (such as shadow of war) that give you consistent engaging content. Eve requires players to make content and frankly, hell alot of players are lazy and can’t be bothered.
The coming nerf is small, but it first requires to kick in and this will take some time. We’ll know more then and how it actually changed the warfare and the meta. It’s one thing to try and to predict the consequences, and another to say how each individual player responds and how effective it’s overall going to be.
I finished that just for the whole story and whatnot but just can’t get further into it. The whole control scheme is just too … “consolitis” for me. I could jsut never remap it to what could work for me comfortably using mouse and keyboard, ended up doing far too many finger twisters. If they would consolidate some functions and allow better key controls perhaps it’d be a different experience for me.
It can be a bit finger twisting, but one of the things that gets me is that I would do an easy assassination and then get jumped by multiple war chief’s and captains, turning what was an easy kill into a desperate fight, that I either kill everything there, have to flee or die. There is also a very interesting bug in that sometimes the spawn location goes mad and you end up with a mass of Orcs and Orges and that can get really intense. Playing on brutal gives you a last chance and more damage, but is pretty much similar to Deathwalker mode.
Would it be one structure that if taken out, it’s all over? Like that teleporting castle from the movie called Krull decades back.
I’ll probably end up being something similar to incursions. As I recall so much gets done in an incursion regarding sites and such that once a certain level is hit the mother ship appears. Then the mothership is destroyed and the incursion is over. A wardec system regarding structures and objectives might take a similar vein, but with timers. And this could be affected by metrics, or I hope. Because if a corp at war still manages to maintain a yield of asteroids and a presence of ships in space without losing anything, they could be said to be doing well. It could be argued that a null corp with their harvest and ratting out in deep space is an advantage. But really, how does one win against a corporation with a solid industrial base by camping highsec gates and catching that one person who made a mistake?
It would be intersting to see if there are any “war structures” around these changes. Since people are still missing the buddy lists I would replace it with surveillance arrays. This would allow you to know where your enemies are, but not upset the super pilots out in null. But this array would be attackable for example. Things like that.
I hope the devs get really creative on this. Creativity is antithetical to “hurrrr durrr I just want kills for muh stats”. Creativity is good. Min maxing like a nerd is bad.
Yes, I would have it so there is no reinforcement timer and it is always vulnerable, or is only vulnerable in the TZ of the defender in the war dec.
Well I would think ships getting blown up count for more.
I hope so, because that is what I want to do, go after these structures.
Also surveillance arrays is one very good way to do this, but again should be open to attack when active.
One thing to note is that it is not true that the watch list was removed to project super pilots, the primary reason was that the two sides would note that the enemy were logging on all their supers and titans and stand down, the other more important reason in terms of war decs was that the war deckers using the API had a fully automated reporting system of people logging. It made it too damn easy to hunt.
One of the points I made over the years, which earned much vitriol from the Church of HTFU and the Gospel of Projection, is that highsec wardec issues were a symptom of other problems.
What, really, is the idea of being in some blanket deccing corp just deccing anything that moves, and in particular, those not so apt in fighting back?
Observation indicates that they want to gate camp. In highsec.
So it could be asked “Why don’t they gate camp in lowsec?”. I think the answer is they would not last because lowsec has FW (meaning, people ready for a fight are present) or there are people who are pretty good at keeping their lowsec system clear so they can run LVL5s and such.
In other words, the gate campers get overwhelmed.
Or it could be asked “Well why don’t they gate camp in nullsec?”
Well without much detail, as we all know, because the gate campers will be overwhelmed.
Suffice to say, they are bad at this game.
So they have to blanket dec in highsec and gate camp there. Because of that. Hence the problem with wardecs is that it’s a mechanic that currently helps people who are bad at Eve.
It does not matter who is who or what, once people recognize a game mechanic that gives other players who are bad at the game an advantage, they won’t play it. Heck in history people give up everything they know and cross oceans just to get away from people who are bad at governing and voting. What makes any video game so special that suddenly this propensity falls to the wayside?
So I think we are in agreement that things must change and it’s good that CCP finally recognizes it. Lots of good arguments were made over the years, people were told “HTFU!”. Damage has been done. We knew we were right back then, and now we get to hear the lamentations of the bad players. As one who has had, twice, game mechanic changes pull the rug out from under my feet, but never started a thread about it, I would say to those bad players… well you know what I would say.
Well there is truth in what you say, people like to win, some people want to totally dominate, though totally dominating someone who has no chance for example is not really a victory at least to me.
I am not so sure just bad, I think you could say lazy or complacent or uncompetitive, or even entitled based on a view that you must be killable everywhere in Eve. As you are well aware if at any time that you question the advantages of their game play they go into attack dog mode and fight tooth and nail to protect their game play.
There is a place for war decs in hisec, but it needs victory conditions to end the war dec, I just find that the total control of when it ends being in the attacker as the main issue. If that is not picked up on by CCP then they will never get it.
I’ve already said it above, but can repeat it here again.
When 500 players wardec a single player then they should be allowed to do it. It’s a matter of the freedom EVE offers. Players can play here free from supervision by parents, teachers, bosses and very rarely do GMs interfere here, too. This is part of the attraction of the game and it’s been a selling point for CCP for many years. Being allowed to do to each other whatever one wants is a major feature of the game.
Players then don’t respond well to more limits and restrictions. They will try and find other means to achieve what they want (more meta game play, more bumping, more ganking, or only more leaving players).
The freedom EVE offers is slowly being taken away. I fear we are headed toward a combat free, more gimmicked high sec. Anyone who wishes combat will be forced into low or null sec, which is what in my opinion CSM wants. The creativity in EVE is disappearing in favor of more structured routes of advancement and new shiny toys.
Or you realize the game you are playing is actually a business, and it is not good business to chase new customers away, no matter how much fun you have doing it.
You know, there is a trend going on out there in the real wold where people are starting to notice how others are using the concept of “freedom” as a shield. They usual “why, you are not against freeeedommmm are youuuuuu?”
I am actually against any freedom in any system that is getting used to destroy said system. But don’t go by my example. I’m a Snek level pragmatist.
So say we don’t allow 500 to 1 fights, but we allow 500 to 400. What happens when not all 400 log in and it’s just again 500 to 1? Should the war be aborted?
What if it starts with a perfect 400 to 400, but one side has 399 players docking up? Should the war here be aborted?
What if in a 400 to 400 fight one side losses 399 more ships than the other side? Would this be a reason to abort the war? And what if it’s 2599 to 2200 losses? Abort or continue?
Then what about neutral remote reps? They’d need to be removed, don’t they, or it wouldn’t be fair again. Same with war allies and they have to be counted to create some kind of a fair fight. Also bumping would need to be nerfed to avoid interference. Oh, and ganking, too …
The point I’m trying to convey to you is that you’ll never be happy in a war. Even when war was turned into a contest or tournament among corporations with prices and trophies only for participation. You will always find a reason as to why some fights were unfair and you will not ever choose to be happy unless you’ve won. You will choose to be unhappy whenever you lose and accuse and criticise others for being stronger.
The Church of HTFU as you call them are only different from you in one way. They are happy just to fight, while you are only happy when you win. That’s why some of us can accept a 500 to 1 wardec, and why some cannot.
Lazy CCP developers require players made content. But today are no more 2005. and games offer real content and fun for money.
It is time for CCP to wake up and offer something to players if want players money.