Blockquote So spare us the sermons about ‘freedom’ and ‘risk’. You’re not defending the sandbox. You’re defending a loophole.
not a loophole but a game mechanics put by ccp since the beta, over 20 years ago
if the playerbase didn’t mind dying in high sec back then, why should we change it 20 years, why high sec should be a bubble ?
The real question is, what will gankers do after ganking is abolished?
They dedicated their whole EVE Online careers to one playstyle that is soon to be obsolete.
as follows…
You claimed
What do you mean exactly by at the start? At the start of EVE? 
Got any evidence to back that claim? CCP has been pretty clear in that Ganking is a perfectly acceptable form of gameplay.
I asked CCP if it’s ok to do what I do, and the reply was “We see no issue.”
Ok, let me know when that happens, I’m sure you will be holding your breathe until then.
Darn it. I always thought the process was…
BUT…now I can see the whole of cosmology is wrong and there is a NEW last stage…
While this question was not directed at me, I spent some time looking for an answer.
Unfortunately, CCP “vanished” the original EVE forum archive, so I could only search Chribba’s EVE Search.
2005 in Crime and Punishment I found this thread:
…where the OP discusses ganking in a 1.0 system, Gallente space. There is the usual “suspects”: pro, anti, condemnation, and if you read post 7 this:
Posted - 2005.12.13 02:44:00 - [7]
Originally by: Serenity Frye
Pathetic, if you want to blow off steam then create a suicide kessie alt and join Resevior dogs in killing macro miners, not new players especially when we know new people are signing onto the game from advertising and articles and SWG.
This sort of thing has been going on since I started the game 2 and a half years ago. I actually got the idea for kessie squads from noob’s who ganked Boogereater in Sobaseki.
I swear, I learn more from the new people everytime I work with them, than I did in the time I’ve played EVE. I think I am still playing the game as it was in Beta…
Other than that - this sucks. These people are here to play the game - not ruin it. Reservoir Dogs has had it ups and downs. Everything from Corp theives to huge donations of ships and cash. I don’t thing we could do this without support from the player base. This is the sort of thing that could turn the players against the antimacro pilots.
—end of post 7.
.
As near as I could tell, from researching, the antimacro pilots, from other posts in C & P, would appear to be ganking miners. I’m not too clear yet on if they, the miners, were bots, afk, or what.
I have to clean my house now, and if I find the energy later on, I may try researching this further back and see if I can find the first use of the suicide gank in relationship to a catalyst.
As you can tell from post 7, at least at that point in time, suicide “kessies” were discussed, and that poster makes references to this activity two and a half years earlier…that puts it in 2003.
To be clear, the reference to 2 1/2 years earlier, I’m not sure if the poster is referencing ganking, kessies, noob ganking or miner ganking.
But he definitely used the words “ganked”, & Sobaseki. That put’s it squarely in Highsec. And that’s in 2005.
This 2005 thread proves that suicide ganking began to emerge as a recognizable behavior around that time, not in 2003. The community was clearly surprised and disgusted, not treating it as a long-established norm. Show me any 2003 evidence of players’ suicide ganking newbros in starter systems.
You won’t, because it didn’t happen.
They clearly state that killing new bros is the bad, not ganking in general. They even say to go suicide gank botting miners instead. Meaning it was established already, and not a novel idea. What is up with reading comprehension these days…?
Reading comprehension isn’t needed when you can tell chatgpt to summarize it for you.
Ah yes, 2005.
Because someone in 2005 said:
This sort of thing has been going on since I started the game 2 and a half years ago. I actually got the idea for kessie squads from noob’s who ganked Boogereater in Sobaseki.
You forgot to ask chatgpt to do the calculations for you?
There is a reason I’ve asked him specifically. He claims things we all know are false, that is why he doesn’t reply to my question as his answer would prove his lies. Perhaps think before you post why that person was asked in the first place. Hint: Should be obvious not because the one asking or others in the thread don’t know.
His very reply to your post shows he now uses the information you’ve provided but which he didn’t know beforehand and his ChatGPT couldn’t gather either. And frankly he even misuses those details and falsely interprets your post.
Anyway @Swing_Vote1 the question is still valid and stands:
It’s good to not blindly believe everything that’s said on the internet.
But when a 2005 source has two people talking about how ganking is nothing new in 2005 and how it has been going on for years already, it is a more convincing argument than whatever nonsense your chatgpt spews onto the forum.
The old archive has a couple posts crying about ganking in 2003. The gist of it is new players never have a chance, and ganking is killing the game. The oldest reference I’ve found to “Calm down miner” is an old goon pamphlet (paper, not digital) from 2006. It tells the story of a sad freighter who was getting bumped and told to pay 10 isk. This would inspire James 315 six years later.
Equals hearsay.
That’s a good example of something that isn’t hearsay.
You know, I always pride myself on not needing to use ChatGPT (or beta Grok) as an intellectual crutch, and I’m surprisingly capable of composing professional voluminous content on my own. I really do, to be honest, feel rather smugly self-satisfied in general whenever I compare myself to those whom I might refer to as “miners” or “plebs”. Ah, but enough about me, it’s just my favourite topic. I merely want to say, clearly, I did not need to use ChatGPT in order to write any of this.
Of course, someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about, perhaps the kind of person who pretends to have a law enforcement background or claims to be an EvE veteran of 22 years, wouldn’t have a clue what hearsay is. As we all know, hearsay occurs when somebody attempts to testify, “I heard somebody say something.” Since we cannot verify the truthfulness of that claim, or the specific context and/or verbiage, such testimony is not normally admissible as evidence.
Of course, there are always exceptions, for example in the common law case where one testifies as to the character of another individual. For example, I heard people say he was a rather dimwitted troll, and I even heard someone say that he made a lot of vapid arguments without any real substance or intellectual thought. Confessions are perhaps the most prominent example of hearsay which is admissible. For example, I heard him confess that he doesn’t really play EvE Online, and he just enjoys “forum PvP”. Another example would be a threat, or a situation in which the words spoken were themselves an offense - such as, he stalked me in the forums and in game for many years, and everybody has remarked upon the fact that he (or rather it, since it is now run by ChatGPT) seems to have an unhealthy obsession with me and has said some inappropriate things. Indeed, in the case of a written document or digital content, a description or summary is not hearsay as the original version can be reviewed and verified independently.
To summarize, if you were (for example) to find a forum post from 2005, in which two people are discussing a subject - that would not be an example of hearsay, because in fact you didn’t even hear anything. Instead, you are simply referring to a document, which can be admitted as an exhibit. Courts accept that the statements of a witness may be considered as non-hearsay, since they are recorded in the record, and likewise a document (or website) is so recognised.
Glad I could clarify things for you!
As always, I am excellent in ganking and everything else.
you cleary intentionaly missed the part where he said "Unfortunately, CCP “vanished” the original EVE forum archive, so I could only search Chribba’s EVE Search
you cleary create post only for attention and nothing else
