I thought it was going to be a classic Hilmar-hate thread. But instead it is an “experience makes you dumb” thread.
I have to assume that the OP does not have 20 years of experience doing anything.
We all have 20 years experience sitting on a toilet. For some that’s at age 21, others at age 65.
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/ooc
Hi, I am wishing to share my understanding why this might actually be not of Eve Onlines fault.
If I may offer an example;
For those who worked in the 80’s, 90’s when computers were introduced into the daily workforce, they had generated the need to sit down, use simple fuctions such as typing to produce the desired output which also trained the workers first using said computers the ability of maintaining a routine that also taught them that computers offered a means of entertainment even if that meant coming into work and switching off their daily lives to focus on work and the use of their computer.
This form of training is how I feel drives the Capsuleer who plays Eve Online while subconsciously becoming the Miner!
/
I am a Miner and I like to play Eve Online!
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And they do that when they see the subscription model without even giving the game a try, so by your logic they don’t win
Yeah not really a business model that works in this scenario, i wouldn’t pay anything if i had access to my current skills and ships, i’ve never remapped in all my decades playing this game and skins are cute but not essential and i can just buy them with ISK lol
So your solution is to just force them to not be able to play without spending, which is a subscription
They get to play for free, thats by definition a free to play model, there is no rule that says 100% of a games content needs to be free for it to qualify as free to play, thats just your personal opinion on what it means
By having exploitative things like pay to win or overpowered cash shop items or gacha’s
Thats the only way free to play actually survives
Oh? so all those free to play gacha games and games with paid battlepasses to unlock basic content (looking at you overwatch 2) are not “bad faith money grabbing tactics”?
Thats before you look at MMO’s that end up with things like pay to win items that are stronger or things to greatly improve your crafting costs/chances etc
You must not have played that many free to play games
You are only saying Eve’s pay to progress model is a free to play model because you dont like facts
-Wesfahrn
Gamers are not that stupid btw. so when you tell them EVE Online is free to play, they get excited, but then they login and realise the truth immediately and get disappointed and less likely to spend money. Just saying.
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And they don’t login in the first place if you tell them its a subscription model, so either way we don’t win, except with the current model they are getting some players
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You are just making this up
Its not the subscription model that is the problem. Its the quality of the game that is the problem. Players made it clear back in 2011 during what was dubbed the summer of rage that something had to change. But nothing really changed and the rest is history. You can also see the “free to play” model failing at launch due to the new influx of players stopping playing again immediately.
Some background on the summer of rage The 2011 Summer of Rage - INN
the most used and abused graph in the history of EvE Online and its forums.
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My favorite part was: “Guy who wasn’t around for Summer of Rage telling people who were there what it was actually about”
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At least it’s creative in a funny sort of way. Needs more crayon.
`lmao people talking about 20k, 30k, 40k…
Man that’s peanuts compared to 200k/300k online player counts nearly 10 years ago…
You can tell your idea is bad when I agree with Cypherous.
And in this I agree with Cypherous.
I dont see anything wrong with a free trial. Think of it like Warcraft where you can play to lvl20 and not use all the features. Now I do see the harm caused by all the other poor decisions that made eve a shitty game instead of a brilliant masterpiece to be proud of. The majority of us are long term gaymers and theres reasons we dont invest more or any time into eve now. You can blame it on eve being 20 years old or w/e ■■■■■■■■ you want but most people dont quit simply because they got bored… including new players.
I take some umbrage with that.
I would bet good isk that most people absolutely quit because they get bored. I see the same cycle every time I come back to the game. See some folks that I know, ask what theyve been playing, marvel that we both got the itch at the same time, eventually burn out on EVE and wait until the next time that we feel the itch again.
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I think many many people would like to disagree 
I want to say there are ALOT of people in the world who take “Free to Play” too literally and they then bash the FTP games as “Pay-To-Win” but then the PTW people say this is the full experience of the game and the FTP people are merely playing a demo version. (In respects to EVE)
Did you get that? I think I got lost myself 
This is why the “freemium” concept came into existence in the gaming industry. Few players want to subscribe right off the bat. So, they need a free version of the game so they will eventually come around to subscribe and get the full benefits of the product.
And just saying CCP has come under alot of competition from other subscription products. Grocery store memberships, Amazon, Streamers, social media perks, and more. ALL COMPETING for that 5-20$ a month from you. Yah in 2010 not so much but in 2023 there are so much more ways to spend a monthly 20$ it’s insane.
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Name one game that right off the bat demands a monthly payment from you to play the game that is in the mainstream?
I can’t.
I therefore believe by just looking around the market (aka steam/other platforms) and seeing that most games are 1-time purchases, DLC based, or a freemium model like EVE online is fairly reasonable to conclude.
Sure, I’ll give my 20$ a month to a streamer because I know 100% what I will get. You can’t know for sure what you will experience in every game. It maybe 2-3 months before you start running into serious issues and a person will just quit as they are burning money.
MMOs have it rough.
Well I was there and I know what it was about. So tell me, what do you think it was about?
I agree 100%, the CEO is responsible for all changes done to the game. For me within my 15 yrs of playing this game, about 75% of the players I knew quit because of game changes, 15% quit because of High Sec grief play and about 5% quit because of boredom. The last 5% of players that I know in-game are like me, still here and holding on to the hope that eventually CCP will stop messing up the game.
OMG… you’re still playing that BS song? Change the record already…
FYI - there’s a lot more to this game than just padding KB stats. Just because somebody doesn’t have a KB doesn’t mean they don’t undock in-game.
As for some of the other points brought up in this thread, I definitely don’t like the Alpha/Omega implementation, also don’t like CCP selling Skill Packs, ships and modules or making various items Soulbound.
Over the years they’re been slowly bypassing the Player-run Market yet they continue to use that phrase as a main point in Eve Online advertising.
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So do I.
Glad we are on the same page.
BTW, coming in hot with „I know, you think you know“ isn’t the beginning to a constructive conversation. Incarna, microtransactions, and paid API access are not „quality of game“ problems as it was very much „direction of game development“ problems.
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