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221

There is nothing wrong with the triple (or quad) ancillary Rorqual. if you nerf it now, all you’re doing is penalizing smaller player groups who cannot ‘drop the hammer 24/7’ to defend their miners.
The dual ancil is far more common anyway.
The rorqual is a SITTING DUCK. It can’t fight off anything small, like a bomber group. It can’t really destroy much other than rats who warp into the belt. ‘it has 1000 dps’ you say, well that’s useless against even a small amount of logi, and certainly useless against the inevitable cyno jammer. triple ancil usually requires a CPU in the low so its more typically 6-700 dps.
Furthermore the triple is nice because it’s ‘immune to neut pressure’ well not really. Yeah, if I’m fit for tank you’ve got a problem. But if I have 2 or 3 drone navs on? Come through my GIANT NAKED EXPOSED EM/THERMAL resistance hole and make me sweat bullets.
Dual ancil is active resist modules, so it is REALLY a bear to manage the reppers ‘just so’. one mistake and you die. it’s intense!!

Background. I have put everything into a rorqual as my only isk faucet for buying pvp ships to go play with. I am the content magnet, I don’t leave grid, I say bring it on. Once I was tackled in my triple ancil, I held 15 minutes without a scratch against 30+ until a few friendlies could shoo them. nothing wrong with that, it is a capital ship after all.
100 bombers (the new thing) would MELT this ship in several volleys. the PANIC module being the only hope for a response fleet.
Just the other night, 70 bombers nearly destroyed FOUR rorquals in our space, who were saved at the last possible second only because the bombers forgot their cyno jammer.

The ship with triple ancil costs about 12billion more or less. If you manage to stash the drones before your depo is reinforced (good luck with that) then its only about 6 billion.
It pulls in about 180mil/hr with max skills, and yes, it is easy to AFK… but AFK in 6 billion isk for a ‘poor’ player like me is deadly. if it dies, that’s it, no way to recover for a year or so. However if it dies ‘with its boots on’ i.e. with triple (or quad!) ancil, then yeah baby that was a good time.
Concord shield booster used to be the way to go. Neut pressure retired that fit.

Having to drop about 4-5 dreads or a couple supers onto a rorqual to kill it, or the 50+ bombers it requires is just part of the thing. An AFK rorqual dies quickly. There is no buffer when triple ancil.
A DD will alpha a triple ancil, or double ancil unless the pilot sees it spooling and gets a panic off.
Besides, the ancils (properly) eat 1million isk cap charges… a 20 minute fight is about 120mil or maybe even 240 million in cap charges consumed.

No, the rorqual is fine as it is, and a nerf from here just makes players like me re-think the whole game. I’m not going to spend more than my monthly sub on the game. Sorry, not gonna happen.
I’m not going to get carpal tunnel flying fighters around for isk. Sorry not gonna happen.

I will however ROAM in my triple ancil once it is replacable for me. I will stand and fight when you bring your buddies to come kill me and the 20 blue hulks using the fleet hangar for compression.
I will sit on comms and have a good time either way, but making the risk/reward equation unbalanced? No thanks.

Besides, in Delve, the rorquals DO NOT fly triple ancil. They fly with hardly a repper on at all.
They use TITANS for support and sit there 24/7 begging someone to give it a go.

The best change for balance was already made. Reinforced depos can’t stash drones anymore. Now the miner can’t be AFK for more than a few seconds. he can’t really multi-box while under attack unless he’s lucky about the sequence in which the depos are reinforced.

Now if you want to make this change (I suspect you really do for some reason) then you’ve gotta give the rorqual about 5,000 dps and drone range out to 150km to compensate. Give it a chance to alpha the logi in these 100 bomber fleets so it can live long enough under neut pressure for a response … Again IN SMALLER ALLIANCES/GROUPS. 5k dps isn’t enough to kill a dread/super… so maybe they need to be nerfed down to cruiser level tank as well?
We’re not all delve.

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222

I tried to have a discussion about this on the side of the defender with the War Dec Discord, a couple of odd personalities got in the way of that. But you really ought to think about what I suggested, especially enabling defenders to gang up better. As well as the skin in the game for war deckers who dec more than five entities. And give back something that enables hunting.

It is not that difficult to push it so that players sort it out, the current system is broken only because the players made it so, warbears basically…, I am being a bit glib here with that warbear comment, but they have nothing to defend, look for easy kills and dock up if anything dangerous come around, they have no skin in the game. But worse of all the defenders can’t even gang up effectively together.

I am heartened to hear that you are looking at it, I hope you listen to the right people though.

I agree, yesterday I was in a fleet which failed to kill two Rorquals, to be blunt it needs to be a challenge, you are spot on with what you said.

223

You forget about Panic modules, about its capital HP, about the guys who stand on ready in Titans, cap pilots that want content. RORQUAL IS BAIT.

How to counter it?

224

Be careful not to balance everything based on what the Goons do!

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225

I thought about sub-cap, anti-cap weapon.

Triglavian based stink bomb that launched into the capital blob would make ships lose more hp if they are bigger, sort of a bioenginered bacteria or sort of “grey goo” that would eat the ship whole. One ship would get infected from another in close proximity.

226

Well GNS your on / off alliance PIRAT is doing exactly the same (really i had to laugh out as i read that from you) If you guys dont have the absolute majority + 15 Neutral reps on the field (sorry i mean on the gate) you simply dont show up.

That you guys brought for 6 Talos (and thats just one site of the gate) https://forums.eveonline.com/uploads/short-url/sMAyCB2RXRcBAUomfKl1b74YTEp.jpeg

227

Death to blobs, especially capital blobs.

228

But if you ignore or don’t take the worst excesses sufficiently into account, you end up with Delve all over the place.

229

War is evolving, there must be environmental pressure. CCP should make environment change from time to time.

If not anti-blob anti-cap weapon, then I dont know what. Nerfing rorquals mining amount will be not enough, but its also needed.

230

And is that necessarily a bad thing?

EDIT: Depends what you mean, I am not trying to be sarcastic on it, more like it is perhaps more interesting that people have challenging castles to kick down the door on. all over the map The North needs to get its act together basically.

231

No one really cares Cyber, were here talking about war mechanics not your obsession with an alliance i’m not even part of at the moment. If they want to bring 100 ships for your thrasher on undock I couldn’t give a monkey.

We don’t complain about not getting fights so not really the same point I was trying to make, most null alliances roll into local and expect us to undock 20 v 60, then come on forums and complain we always dock and hide. My point was to say if they actually baited then they might get a fight.

Just to add Cyber, not sure if you’ve noticed but the suggestions being made would mean groups like yours would be unable to exist. Because there is no way anyone would let you put structures down :wink:

232

Yes, it is. We had challenging castles to kick down in the past as well, without these massive excesses in supers and titans.

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233

I am under impression that CCP can think of those problems like that: “we are late already, so why the haste? Lets post HTFU to them on our alts”.

Then they get boiled themselves like frogs. :thinking: Problems acumulating like temperature, and its killing.

234

CCP should put in a number say five war decs where this is not required, then it does not hurt the solo or small entities.

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235

They already admit they are losing players because of wardecc. Saying HTFU to players won’t do anything here. In fact CCP should HTFU and act quickly here.

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236

CCP is in a dire need of a Gordon Ramsay kind of personality to put them back on their legs. So they will start hiring and delivering instead of showing CSM how bad it is, as if we didnt knew already.

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237

You’ve attended 7 CSM Summits!

How does this surprise you?

Did you sleep or play on your phone through them all?

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238

I agree with your suggestion but believe that other things need to be ‘fixed’ such as locates (in space when in citadel) & corp flipping/dropping before an idea like this could work, also I would suggestion the limit being 20. 5 is far to low to allow small groups to operate as even with 110 wars in PIRAT it could be difficult to find content.

239

I think Wardecs should work out of an incremental stance…

so if corp A is 1000 people,
wardec corp B of 10 people,

Then corp A must pay 990% of std wardec price…
the price pr. 7 days go up 990% for the attacking Corp.

Once the war is ended theres war-time x10= peace time, were a new wardec is impossible, by any entity that participated in it. aka. based on every single char,
not corp or alliance.

same in reverce, if 10 ppl wanna wardec 1000 people
they would start of paying 10% of std war dec price.
wich again goes up 10% pr week the war is on.

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240

I am glad to see that you have moved your position a bit, good to hear it. 20 is too high, I wanted to push people towards more targeted war decs as small and solo entities and five looks about right to me in terms of gathering intel etc. Remember that they do not have the locator logon intel that the Concord agent in a citadel would give them under my suggestion. So they have to be on top of what their prey is doing.