Why would those corps be in an alliance instead of just using standings and ACL settings on the structures?
Iād agree on this, any genuine ideas end up lost in the bicker chaff. There needs to be a genuine effort to discuss ideas, without the arguments.
The Social Corp proponents are divided.
Half says it will be just a NPC Corp with a name tag.
Half say it will be just a Player Corp without a structure.
Those are not the same.
My concerns are that:
- Neither changes ANYTHING about the wardec mechanic issues, at all.
- The former is pointless, and just means you can have a named NPC Corp.
- The latter is more problematic, as it deincentivises players from joining existing Player Corps that can handle the heat, even as wardec mechanics are now.
- Fact of the matter is, new players should be encouraged to join existing Player Corps that can handle their operation. This provides a social environment, activities, financial and learning support. New players should not be forming their own Corps, Social or Player, because it invariably sets them up for disaster.
- Instill maintain my doomsday prediction of how NS entities will exploit Social Corp mechanics, to dominate HS. Nothing I have read has convinced me otherwise, instead, its reinforced my concern on that.
- If wardec mechanics arent addressed, it means these Social Corps will just end up in the same ā ā ā ā when they go Player Corp, log off, and never return.
Look, guys.
We have read in the minutes, that small groups of players are causing a disproportionate attrition of players out of EVE, due to wardec mechanics, and low risk to themselves.
This is what we should be focusing on to fix.
The problem is not the absence of Social Corps.
The problem is in the wardec mechanics.
Of course I understand the issue of how far do you go in terms of corrective action, but the issue is that it made the imbalance so much greater. And no I do not think that this reply is to troll me, you are understanding where I am coming from on this issue.
I mention this because this and the imbalance around CODEās easy freighter ganking are part of the huge and complex problem, and there is not an easy solution if you want to keep Eve true to its ideals. I want the ecosystem to develop to deal with war decs and that is why I am so in favour of those Propaganda structures and I will go as far as putting my own money and effort where my mouth is if that is instigated.
I mentioned the Tech imbalance as an after thought because if that had not existed it is likely that we would still be using SBUās in nullsecā¦
Hats off to the ones writing paragraphs of text, bickering at each other over meaningless topics, in a meaningless thread though!
The ecosystem did develop to deal with war decs: a decade ago, there were pirate hunters who dealt with things like that. Butāand this is a natural development thatās hard to avoidāone side got bigger than the other, and the end result was that you had bored combat pilots looking to shoot people. Soā¦ then all ended up on the same āsideā, shooting people.
They went from competition, to a moreā¦ whaling model. Or, if you prefer, trawling: the supply of āfishā seemed endless, so they didnāt need to care about sustainability. And that breeds ecosystem collapse. Given time, itāll re-balance, but thatāll probably mean near total depopulation of HS first as the predators (wardeccers) kill off the herbivores (PvErs) and then starve.
Thatās doubtful. The Technetium imbalance was largely addressed with the addition of Alchemy to replace Tech with other moongoo in industry. Thatās part of why we hit Fountain in 2013, to offset the loss of income. The change from Dominion to Aegis was about shrinking footprints and opening space up for new groups to move in. The rental empire model, which is still in use in some areas, provides the biggest impediment to that nowāthough some parts of the map are opening up.
The other aim of Aegis, to break up the big blocsā¦ well, thatās been far less successful, in part because of how successful the āif you really use your space, itās saferā model works. But thereāll be more said on that and Aegis sov soonā¦ elsewhere. >.>
Do you know how Pirat is structured? Did you know that the war machine within Pirat is completely self-sustaining (assuming we fulfill our obligations). Let me elaborate:
We have monthly defense contracts that pay for almost all of not all of our weekly war bills. We also own no structures that the individual you are referring to could have dumped ISK into for infrastructure.
YOU have no way of knowing where his ISK went and any assumption is just attempting to witch hunt. I donāt like botters just like everyone else, so your attempt to cast Pirat in some pro-botting light or at least try to say weāre complicit in it is a joke.
So those handful of defense contracts pay for like everything. The other day we were paid 15b to defend 3 structure timers in an hour time frame. That 15b was evenly split between each person involved in the op. So I walked away with an easy 15b. Ship losses are SRPd out of the same wallet that pays for wars.
Self-sustaining. There absolutely no reason for a botter to inject ISK into a Wardec alliance that is hand over fist profitable on its own.
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How does that create a strategic weakness to the massive outclassed small and new corps of highsec? If they canāt defend their own stuff, what makes you think they can organize to defeat the current power blocs of highsec?
I mean, Iām not against people having more stuff in space they have to defend, including wardeccers, but I honestly donāt see how a propaganda structures does anything for the large number of corps that donāt log in when they are under a war.
I think indeed this thread has spiraled off into irrelevance. Everything that can be said has been and Iāll let it be now and wait for some developments on the issue. Eve Vegas is just around the corner after all.
Thatās because this change isnāt aimed at the smaller, weaker corps that want to push off war dec groups. Itās aimed at the large blocs that will form a fleet once a week or once a month to go shoot a billboard. Itās just under the guise of helping highsec.
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Every player that makes stupid suggestions about war decs gets a free war for more experience. Aint that nice of marmites?
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Did the CEO bot, or not?
What change are you referring to?
Log on NPC corp alt everybody. 
How many of PIRATās current 160 wardecs are defense contracts?
You said they are a handful.
So what are the rest?
Allegedly the original CEO was bottling and transferred ownership of the alliance to someone else to avoid it. I donāt personally know the original CEO as Iāve never interacted with him.
The change Iām referring to is anyone thinking that their suggestion of empowering the small groups of players is going to work. While Iām not against to having structures that other players can shoot, letās call it what it is. They just want their Nullsec groups to be able to clear out war dec groups from trade hubs.
There are a few main contracts that pay for the bulk of the ācontent warsā.
Faylee of course I know how it is structured now.
I am assuming that the ISK went to pay war dec fees while the self sustaining income as you refer to it went into sorting out bling ships to gain that huge advantage.
It is not a joke, because why would he have done all that botting? Because of what reasons when his focus was totally on PIRAT. You are self-sustaining now, but they got to that level due to botting IMO.
Yes, and it is collapsing as we discuss this.
The thing is that you ended up with massive war chests, the ability to buy supers and titans, alliances that were good such as Nulli Secunda and -A- could not compete and therefore died. Making it even more likely. I watched this happen. I believe that had this tech imbalance not existed then we might not be where we are now in terms of nullsec. But anyway that is not a debate to have here even if it is an immensely interesting one.
I am hoping to help that along, with a few others of course, but without the Propaganda structure it is not even worth trying. I wonāt.
It is aimed at both hisec to develop and for nullsec to give a damn to go and slap them every so often. It is content.
This will be an impact from the change, but as Arrendis earlier in this thread said it will not be a major focus of most nullsec alliances, it will happen of course, and some might just create a hisec war dec arm for content. Anyway it is all content, you want fights donāt you?
You want people to log off? 
I am debating pushing for my alliance to develop a war dec arm, so if you do then It will actually help meā¦, but so far no war dec from Marmite so I take it that my suggestions are not stupidā¦, at least in your eyes.
What is your position currently in PIRAT?
In so far as the Social Corp idea, I agree.
How do you then defend PIRAT, as an alliance of only 240 members, having 160 wardecs open, which cause players to logoff and never return?
You are making wild assumptions. Groups like Pirat and Marmite have been around forever. They are well-known and reputable groups that have had working business models to bring them thus far. How do you know the dude wasnāt botting for RMT or to supply Nullsec alliance alts with supers and titans?
Also Pirat doesnāt pay for peopleās ships. They reimburse losses when they happen. Pirat isnāt going to go buy me a Proteus or a Machariel if I want one. Thatās up to the member to get.
I agree content is content and Iām all for it. Itās just humorous to see all the suggestions and rallying against wars on multiple platforms of discussion where itās nullsdc guys pretending to give a damn about highsec, when itās really all about them. Not necessarilly saying that about youā¦ itās just an observation.
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But you just started a war with us last month!
I am a normal member in Pirat. I came with VMG when they merged.
Highsec wars are almost all guerilla warfare right now. The only exception are structure timers where you can force a fight. Thereās a big difference in how wars are fought between other mercs and your regular joes we catch flying around trade hubs and such.
Itās a lot of baiting, counter-baiting, honeypotting, and just general hit and run type stuff. The best example of ābeating usā that I can give is Black Legion. They are doing a great job of spanking us right now. They are single handedly proving everyone here wrong as a matter of fact. Granted they are devoting time and effort, but their rewards are well-deserved.
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