There is no smoke without fire, it is not a wild assumption, it is a perfectly logical assumption. I was observing war deckers such as VMG and PIRAT when I was in hisec.
PIRAT are not reputable, well at least then they were not, as I said earlier I came across two characters in the lead corp who used the local hack to the client that did not show them in local. They have a long history of cheating and yes those incidents were petitioned.
I don’t, however his focus was on PIRAT, so it is a pretty fair assumption to make and I came across a number of war deckers during that period who told me that there were a number of rich sugar daddy types funding the larger war deckers. So putting the botting and that comment together we get a fairly strong possibility that this was indeed happening.
Yes which is what they were doing, but the main corp players were getting the ships and modules from this at the time at a guess.
Nullsec are engaged in hisec, the thing is that it is content, I am looking for this to be better content for hisec people and I am not against using the attitudes of the nullsec groups to break the blanket war deckers.
I am aware of what it is, however Black Legion are an elite alliance and way above anything in hisec.
The ‘war chests’ from the OTEC era were expended long before Aegis went in. Nulli didn’t die because they couldn’t compete, Nulli died because PGL left, and Gorga, their actual alliance leader, was so inactive, he actually got kicked off the CSM for inactivity. That’s like getting kicked out of Congress for being useless—it just doesn’t happen. But it did.
Nulli also died because in the latter half of 2014 and first part of 2015, we paid (financed at the time by PBLRD rental money and ratting taxes from Deklein) PL to kill them. PL wouldn’t take a job against NCdot, but they had no such compunctions about working against other N3 member-alliances.
In addition, the real explosion of supercapitals didn’t happen until after the Casino War. But like I said… more on all that soon elsewhere.
Yes it is. And there may not be a damned thing that can be done about it at this point. If there is, though, it won’t be a quick-and-easy fix. It’ll be something systemic. Knee-jerk fixes tend to just make things worse in unexpected ways.
It is cause and affect, the war chest was a massive leg up in the competition against others such as -A and Nulli Secunda who did not have it. And the impact enabled those who had it to out compete them to too much of a degree. You can snatch points in time out of the air like you just did, but I am talking about -A- as it was in 2011/12 and the same for Nulli.
I am against stopping war decs, though I do not know the numbers, if they are that stark then the items 1-4 that I detailed are short term options. The thing is that your success in nullsec might revitalise hisec if there is a proper system in place, because a number of the smaller and medium sized alliances rebuild in hisec after being defeated in nullsec.
Your assumptions are only as good as mine it seems. Facts are much more important to talk about, not spread what ifs, it appears, and I thinks.
I meant reputable as in a group that takes ISK and provides a service.
What BL is doing isn’t special. They literally have used a Hyperion to bait, then have tackle warp in when we’ve committed. It’s not hard stuff. Sure a new small group isn’t going to be this capable but the general process remains the same.
Well, Nulli in 2011/12 was a very different beast. I’d say where the advantage really lay for the OTEC powers wasn’t in the money from OTEC, but the diplomacy. The ability to say ‘ok, we don’t have to worry about a serious, sustained attack from this direction’ was far more valuable than any cash influx, and since the ‘big’ battles at the time were all Maelstroms, Drakes, and Tengus… Titans were basically bridgers, and super-carriers… centerpieces for slowcat/uberboot fleets.
They more tend to rebuild in lowsec, because they can’t take their caps and supers into highsec. But the real damage will be in the depletion of PvE players from highsec. If they stay, they’ll go to null, where intel channels and support fleets can provide a measure of safety, and standings remove the issue of ‘wardecs’ completely. Sad fact: if you wanna do PvE, Delve, especially, is safer than Perimeter or Sarum Prime.
The problem with that is that once those people leave highsec, getting new people to stay in HS and repopulate will take a lot of time, and it’ll be very fragile. And let’s face it, EVE players aren’t known to be restrained and patient when it comes to ‘lets go blow up the helpess miners in HS!’
Of course I don’t know for certain, but it fits with what I saw. I had the numbers sort of for VMG and those for PIRAT based more around Amarr were not making sense to me.
OK…, I will leave it at that.
I agree.
Yes I understand how it works, but look at what they used 14 ships and there was sic faction BS on the first Guardian kill, Nine including a Leshak and Nestor on the Mach. Well above the ability of hisec players in terms of numbers and assets.
It doesn’t have to be faction battleships with 14 people though. Jita Holding is doing a good job too. They use Talos and Megathrons, usually using 4 people with no Logi.
It’s actually less impressive to use the shiny toys. I get that BL like to present themselves as totally elite pro PvPers, but you know… they’re just as comically inept as the rest of us, about as often.
I was in IRC at one point, yes I know, but bear with me, we defeated a fair few CFC fleets, however in doing so lost ships which we could not easily replace as no moon goo as such and the CFC just came back at us with the numbers again due to this war chest. Sorry but it was a major impact in carving out your success.
I am talking about when you really put down the pain, they won’t have those supers any more…, the game does not end with the Goon dominance of nullsec in any case as long as CCP are smart. And I think you guys are smart enough not to over do it like war deckers do. Well I hoep so…
I am glad you mentioned them. They are most definitely doing it right!
One of my mates recently joined BL, and I can only imagine what he thinks after a certain event in lowsec which was his first introduction to BL. I have them marked as elite bumblers, but Elo Knight is a class FC.
It’s almost impossible to actually wipe out an alliance’s supercapital fleets. They’re not going to be stupid enough to commit when they can’t win, and if you can’t make them commit, you can’t kill them all.
Except again, you’re overestimating and oversimplifying. What crushed IRC wasn’t the CFC. It was RZR. Where the CFC could come at you with numbers so consistently… that’s because we had numbers. IRC wasn’t fighting one alliance, they were fighting ten. And that meant costs were defrayed across ten alliances. No one group had to replace the same levels of damage.
If I take $1000 from one person, or $1 from 1000, on my end, it’s the same amount. But the 1000 people miss it a lot less than that 1 guy does.
Elo Knight is 90% of BL’s problem, and 100% of BL’s success. He’s a good FC, don’t get me wrong… but they have other good FCs, too. Some FCs who are far better than Elo, when they’re active and want to lead. But when Elo goes inactive (again, as we all know he will), BL will die off… again. Until Elo comes back.
But yeah, Elo’s a decent guy, when he’s not stealing booze from Vegas party suites. >.>
You believe your own propaganda sadly, I was there, we could have beaten Razor, but not the CFC, and it was the CFC going for the fight with a large for the time super cap fleet on the entry system into CE which caused IRC to collapse, I managed to dock my carrier which had been repping the station just in time. All the meaningful fights would be full CFC and that was it, game over.
But then you said this:
The tech was shared out by the Goons which was smart, however that was the tech tat enabled you to keep chucking full fleets at people, I was also in the Tribute war too, so saw that in action there. Anyway have a dinner to sort out so back to this later.
I told you what the rest are. They are content wars. Wars to fill the void between contracts and timers.
I also see the issue with wars and retention at a different angle than most of the echo chambering that’s going on here.
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So wars are causing newernplsyers to dock up, log off, and never return to the game. These are the same newer players that CCP said in the minutes weren’t dying to wars, so what gives? Is is all psychological?
I mean Pirat does very little actual hunting. It’s mostly trade hub stuff and structures (that from what I’ve seen aren’t owned by small groups). So where is it that groups like Pirat since they seem to be the shining example here are interacting with players in a way that effectively makes them quit? Are they that mentally oppressive that someone who is likely to have never died in a war or interacted with a war target makes the decision to log off and not return? Maybe.
I think that if you consider the above that it is shitty leadership and CEOs that are doing a “the world is coming to an end bit” where they tell their members that if they lose a ship then they will get kicked (out of fear of extending the dec), they tell their members to stay docked up, they tell their members to not bother playing for the duration, and that it is their advice that actually is the reason for them not logging back in.
I mean can you blame them after having to deal with a war in which they have been made to feel weak and powerless and add on top of that CCPs ■■■■ NPE and unfun, Grundy, and repetitive PVE? I’m definitely not saying that wars should be left alone because there is A LOT that can be done concerning wars and highsec content in general (not just PVP). What I am saying is that this data was released and everyone is so gung ho to ride the anti-war wave and they don’t want to explore deeper contributing issues. I mean I don’t blame you for that either, really.
Look at how long people have complained about wars, specifically people from Nullsec groups. They just want to do their business at a trade hub and be back out to Nullsec.
It’s not a matter of propaganda. I was CFC Recon at the time. Space Violence liked going after you guys (that was a Suas thing), but it was RZR that was hitting IRC. The rest of us weren’t involved. Suas himself used multiple carriers… but that was almost all for ratting in Syndicate. It might have been EG hitting you, but there wasn’t any kind of actual ‘let’s kill IRC’ effort going. If anything, most of us were telling RZR to back off so IRC didn’t failscade.
I doubt it’s so much ‘psychological’ in terms of risk aversion or some kind of dysfunction, as much as ‘No, this isn’t the gameplay I want’ and then they just find something else they want to do.
But yes, there needs to be a lot more of a carrot to the gameplay to bring people back after inactivity… the only problem is there that that’s gonna take a lot of work. It’s work I think they should do, mind you.
I do my business at a trade hub. It’s in 1DQ1-A. Anything I need from highsec goes through NPC-corp alts, so this doesn’t affect me in the slightest.
