You’re ignoring the problems that a 1000 Keepstars would cause just to say they wouldn’t be a problem. It’s still ignorance.
That sentence doesnt make sense. Must be a few typos.
Regardless, even if you place a single Keepstar in the same HS system I place a single Astrahus in, I will be in profit from buy/sell orders and services offered as soon as I pass the 840mil + extras cost, whereas you will take years to even break even on your Keepstar.
Because you don’t comprehend the problems that come with a thousand Keepstars.
No, that’s the complaint against structure spam in regards to player retention. It’s not a complaint against fixing wardecs, it’s a complication that has to be taken into account when attempting to fix wardecs.
HS Structure spam isnt going to reduce retention, it increases it.
HS Players want their own space home in HS.
Makes them happy, QOL and fulfilled.
It helps retain them.
HS structure spam already exists, and has caused no problems, except overview items, which can be fixed by adjusting overview settings.
Its pointless to have more than one Citadel or Engineering Complex per system in HS, for any one Player Corp.
You’re forgetting the long-term effect when systems are full of structures. The number of structures can grow infinitely, but happiness does not.
Structures need to be limited in numbers so that players can keep wanting them and remain willing to invest time and effort into gathering resource for building them and defending them.
HS structure spam increases the difficulty of working with an already-dense and non-intuitive User Interface. So far, a number of players from various regions in space—including HS—are telling you that structure spam is bad, that it makes this more difficult, that it makes navigation and playing the game more burdensome. This means it reduces Quality of Life. If we were to ask the CSM, such as @Brisc_Rubal, whether there is data that shows the difficulty of the UI contributes to retention problems, I suspect they would indicate that it does, and that structure spam is part of that difficulty.
Do you have actual data to support your position, or simply your own opinion?
Edit: in addition to overview spam, the number of structures in system has an effect on the sweep-scan done when jumping into a system, and can increase load times. This is in addition to the effects seen when the system has to check docking rights at every structure in order to produce the right-click-in-space context submenus for the ‘structure’ drop-down, which also impacts server and client performance.
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I wonder he he ever logged onto SiSi where there’s about 1k citadels in the pvp system 
(although I really doubt it considering he talks out of his arse as usual)
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OK, the argument that Arrendis and others makes against social corp having the ability to have structures due to the highly likely chance that the mechanic will be abused by certain people ( imagine that in EVE) resulting in laged server response time and massive cluttering in the OI makes sense. I would have liked a social corp to have one little gimped structure, but, people being EVE people, it would just be exploited by some. If that is the case,though, something needs to be allowed or created to have a focal point for social gathering outside of talking in corp channel while mining/mission/exploring. A single corp office at a station should be allowed. It doesn’t allow, for the most part, any advantage for the markets,manufacturing,refining,etc.,doesn’t project power, no tethering repair, you just get whatever is available in your chosen ONE system to have an office and hangers. You could even have the costs of adding beyond the basic office added to the monthly cost on some ala carte method: want 1 corp hangar, costs x amount more per month. I would like if they could have had some sort of Corp central screen similar to what was in the old CQ to post messages,warnings, and allow for spur of the moment communication outside of mailing or corp chat.
Expect even that will get some blow back by certain people.
There are potential ways to do this, like the old limitations on POSs—1 per moon, regularly-incurred costs apply, etc. But right now none of those methods are available for the current Upwell structures.
Leave it to CCP to design themselves out of a possible partial solution while improving the game.
EVE’s biosystem is sure damaged; guess it will take some time for the symptoms to climb up the food chain. Spent around three hours last night in and near my home system. The populations were (not counting some transients) 4-6,1,0,0 for the 4 systems I was in ON A WEEKEND. Don’t see how that bodes well for EVE’s financial future.
Set up overview to not show them. Fixed.
I dont think anyone has chosen to leave EVE cos there are too may items in their overview.
You can adjust your overview settings, exactly for this reason.
I have shown, deductively, how even if there already any number of player structures by others in a HS system, you can still compete with them.
Or you dont compete with them at all, and just use your own, for yourself and your friends.
It does not matter one whit how many other Player structures there are in the system you have your structure in.
Pffttt…
This is not data. This is irrelevant.
Ah, there’s some substantive discussion of the matter at hand.
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How does it negatively impact you in HS if there is 1, 10, or 100 other Player structures there in that system, in addition to your own 1 or few?
Do you have data to show the most Structure dense systems in HS are causing any significant extent of server load increase or delay for loading on the clients part?
I already laid out a number of ways it does. You responded to them with “Pffttt…”
As I’m not the one with server load data at my fingertips, that would be difficult, wouldn’t it? Perhaps one of the CSMs can help us get that data from CCP. What we do have is CCP saying structure spam is a problem, as far back as last year’s EVE Vegas and Fanfest, the latter of which was barely 9 months after Upwell structures went in in the first place.
And, as I can already imagine you demanding to know how being able to compete with other structures is irrelevant…
Being able to compete with other structures doesn’t impact the load time.
Being able to compete with other structures doesn’t impact the clutter on the sweep scan.
Being able to compete with other structures doesn’t address the overview/d-scan/probe scan/drop-down menu clutter[1].
Being able to compete with other structures in no way has any relevance with regard to whether or not structure spam is a quality-of-life improvement or degradation to every single player who travels through that system, but is not actively trying to use those structures in that system to make absolutely every last ISK they can on market margins.
- Go on now, tell me how to configure my structures menu to not show every single spam cit I can dock at in the system.
See above.
And I refuted them.
Overview can be player set to show what they want, or not.
You have no evidence structures in HS are causing any significant harm to server load or client side loading (which is nonetheless covered by gate cloak duration).
And the reference to it being irrelevant was not ‘this is irrelevant because it is not data’. It’s two separate sentences. Thus the ‘.’ between them.
Wtf is a “structures menu”?
This is getting tedious, fast.
Did you have any other argument except overview settings and a spurious claim they cause server load or client load issues, which you have no data for?
Just because you believe you have refuted a point doesn’t actually mean you have.
The whole point of a citadel was that you gain benefits over and above NPC stations. In return you accept the risk that you may be wardecced for it. Your proposal is to allow any corp to put up any structure with perfect safety for 50 mil a month. It’s a truly horrible idea, that is all reward and no risk.
Another point, say I’m a new industrialist testing out manufacture. I now have to go through dozens of citadels to find the one I want. That would be awful to navigate, and really crappy game design
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ok, I want you to try something new. Three new things, in fact.
1: Log in.
2: Undock.
3: right-click in space and read the menu that comes up. Look for the word ‘Structures’.
Oh, and before you tell me about how nobody right-clicks and everyone uses the overview, on your nine day old alt, you might want to go and check out the NPE you seem to have skipped, because it briefly glances at the over view to tell you it’s there, and everything else is ‘right-click on…’
Edit: sorry, misread the date. Nine days old.
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