He’s right. Before there were barges and exhumers, there were mining battleships. There’s no reason not to give the smaller industrials the PG and hardpoints for weapons, and leave the bigger ones with only 1 turret slot.
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My battle nereus will eat most unprepared souls pretty easily 
Any armament a mining or hauling specialized ship would have will be inadequate to fight off and defeat even a token attack by dedicated PvP ships/fits.
The notion of miners in a field and haulers enroute attacking each other is amusing, but where would that occur, and why bother when you can bring in a combat capable alt with approporiate ship/fit.
Nor would the miners/haulers have scrams fitted to prevent the other just warping off.
This is basic EVE 101. Even suggesting that miners and haulers should be able to PvP is ridiculous.
It doesn’t have to win, it just needs to be able to provide enough of a delay for help to arrive, or to escape. If you can force them outside of scram range, you’ve got a much better chance of running away.
Good! Let 'em warp off! The miner just wants to mine, remember?
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Armaments in no way provide a delay.
Tank does.
This is astounding that I have to explain such simple things to a vet like you.
Armaments do, in fact, provide a delay. If you can mount good close-range guns, you can keep them from coming in on you with their close-range guns. Most ganks use blasters or pulse lasers because they don’t need range. Tornado ganks are something completely different, and you’re not going to avoid those no matter what you do.
And for the record, on the ‘miners with scrams’ issue… never seen a Skiff pilot kill an attacking bomber with his drones while scramming him, have you? It’s actually pretty easy. The little beasts have more than enough tank to spare a couple of mid-slots.
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Drones already fulfill this function.
They might…
If, you know, industrials other than Ventures, barges, exhumers, and the aforementioned Battle Nereus could use them.
They can fit weapons in high slots too.
1 weapon. And they don’t have the PG to do that and fit a tank and prop.
Too bad, too sad.
And a prop on an industrial? Why?
For the same reason Deep Space Transports get bonuses to the benefits of overheating their prop mods? To run away?
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So you want a DS to have weapons to fight, a tank, and prop bonuses?
What armament do you imagine them having?
DSTs and Blockade Runners are already in a pretty good space. We’re talking about things like the Wreathe, Badger, and Sigil.
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Answer please.
Having not given the matter extensive thought, I’m not sure. Drones might be an option. Enough PG and the turret slots to mount 4 small long-range guns of their racial type might, as well. It doesn’t have to be a lot. 4 Small Focused Beam Laser IIs is 52 PG. The Sigil’s already got that (312.5MW PG) if it sacrifices a little tank. But it doesn’t have the turret slots. Bumping the PG up by enough to let it continue to have the tank it currently gets shouldn’t be an issue.
Also on the subject of PG btw… consider this:
The Caracal, a combat ship, has 787.5 PG. Its T2 version, the Cerberus, has 1,000 PG, an increase of about 50%.
The Bestower, a T1 industrial, has 112.5 PG. The Impel, its T2 version, has 412.5 PG, an increase of about 300%.
Long range weapons typically have higher PG than short range.
Stabber/FI Stabber/Vagabond as a case in point. It cant fit arty.
Earlier you said it should be short range weps to drive off scram ships.
I think you confused the higher PG of long range weapons, with their inefficacy in short range, especially in turret weapon systems due to their lower tracking and rof.
Increasing PG may lead to inadvertent abuse, in investing the extra PG into something other than weapons. And adding 4 high slots will completely brealk ship balance by slots.
What benefit do you see to the game from mining/hauling ships having armaments?
I have to say it, Im shocked Im having to go over this with you.
A vet of yours years should know better than suggesting to arm mining/hauling vessels.
And haulers are medium hulls, not small.
Medium short-range: Heavy Pulse Laser II - 208 PG
Small long-range: Small Focused Beam Laser II - 13 PG.
Have you looked at the range on a small beam laser?
Small Focused Beam Laser II: Optimal Range: 13.2km.
Mining ships already do. A Skiff is about the most dangerous cruiser-sized hull you’ll encounter if you go hunting in Null. 223 DPS and 100k EHP tank while still getting 18m3/s yield.
With a point fitted.
As for what benefit? It gives haulers who don’t have the skills for Blockade Runners and DSTs the chance to be a slightly harder target while running things around in highsec and lowsec. If the Indy pilot feels like he has even a small chance of not dying, he’s more likely to risk nipping through lowsec to make a cargo run. He’s more like to decide to find out how dangerous that space is.
There is a significant benefit to the game in getting players acclimated to the increased risk of lowsec.
Now, since you’ve asked questions, here’s one for you:
Other than insisting that it can’t be done—even though other than T1 haulers, it already is—what detriment do you think there is to allowing T1 haulers to defend themselves?
Frankly, I’m not shocked you don’t seem to have a clue on this, but keep spouting off on things where you can be demonstrated to be wrong, easily.
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Then there is no need to add armaments.
Earlier you wanted weapons on DSTs…
A few small weapons wont save you from a suicide gank, and you can run haulers on NPC and soon to be Sofial Corps without wardecs.
A few small weapons wont save you in LS.
You still dont get it.
Mining and hauling ships are for mining and hauling, not for fighting.
Again: We’re talking about T1 HAULERS.
They don’t have to. They just have to let the pilot feel like he might be able to run away.
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