The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Arrendis

Little change in how the game client manages corps?

Yeah, this.

@Arrendis

We’re constantly evolving and refining our management procedures. EVE is just a game. The people who place their trust in me to help give them the tools to play it? They’re not a game, and we take our responsibility to them very seriously.

Its the gap between the two that need to be closed. Control over structures via the political system in the same way blueprints are managed, withdrawl limits on corporate wallets. The rights to modify structure fits, without risking all the fits being stolen. The ability to submit a construction job, without also granting the ability to cancel other submitted jobs. Transfer of items between corporate hangars, but not into personal inventory.

Its all built on trust, a commodity that is getting as rare between the players as it it with CCP.

@Arrendis

First thing you should do is learn the difference between ‘block’ and ‘bloc’.

Yeah, okay, there I was thinking it was just lazy spelling. Enlighten me.

@Arrendis

That was extensively discussed in CCP’s own structures blogs, threads, and round tables when Upwell structures were still under development.

Yeah, okay, I was more on about how the volume of certain ships must indicate how large the parking bays might be, its not like the white lines outside of wall mart change in size depending on if you are driving mom’s minivan or the touring bus of the Swedish bikini team.

@Arrendis

You can put a Barghest inside a Nidhoggur, despite the Barghest being 3x the width.

See, there you go, however that works is some serious spaceship origami.

[Eve_Griefer]

@Litsea_Reticulata

Yeah, okay, there I was thinking it was just lazy spelling. Enlighten me.

Bloc
Don’t ask why. English

[Zuccini_Vaselini]

Abundance breeds Complacency and Scarcity breeds War

Scarcity is the reason 99% of Eve players are risk averse as crap.
I used to run Myrmidon alts for bait and according to the “my year in Eve” video i am among the top 1% for PVP ship kills because of it - won’t be so next year because intentionally welping Myrmidons to generate content is no longer sustainable because the DBS is garbage and the ESS will steal from my work after i log off for the night.

Autarky is Anathema to Free Trade

I can freely buy all the ships i want.
If i was an Idustrialist i’d be pissed about having to put a bunch of alts in high and low sec.
But i guess its a way to force more people to live in otherwhise empty areas of space - spreading content even thinner, promoting even more risk averse behaviour - just what CCPs wants appearently.

Changes made to the capital ecosystem improved diversity, promoted escalation, and increased destruction.

Removed all reason to risk losing my Titan while ratting.
Removed all reason to risk losing my Super while ratting.
Nerfed resistence modules across the board to shrink engagement profiles for solo and small gang, litterally taking a dump on Battleships,
easy ganks for low skill blobbers and pushing HACs to dominate the fleet meta even more.
Promoting risk averse behaviour everywhere.

Encounter Surveillance System and Dynamic Bounty System were launched together to dynamically curb excessive system outputs, support PvP income streams, and increase risk to low-attention ratting.

ESS and DBS were launched to promote people moving to high sec or wormholes to krab in piece, grant easy ganks and a place to waste your time for a few ISK when you don’t get ganked.

As iteration took place at a much faster pace this year, not everything has been perfect from the moment it went live on Tranquility.

And the goddamn red dot still can’t be turned off.

rapid iteration on the ESS, DBS

i’d rather see rapid removal of these abomminations.
The ESS arena with it’s contrived limitations has no business existing in null sec.
The DBS does not make baiting more profitable and moving all my crap to chase better paying systems is idiotic gameplay.
Instead i now make 500m/h wormhole loot in 100% safety - thanks for promoting risk averse behaviour, i never realised what a waste of time Myrmidon ratting was.

Introduce Reserve Bank keys for the ESS as players start planning heists and/or fortifying their bank defenses as billions of ISK become accessible across all of Nullsec.

Where is my access to steal money from high sec incursion runners?
When can i start taxing miners and market traders?

[bluelysian]

May be not because of that… may be we just didn’t like the triglavian content pushed through down into out troats by force by developers in the sandbox game… may be because of they took our 12 years of traditional home system and crumbled unique and amazing totally player made organic content … may be when they over geared the triglavian ships and variety meanwhile introduce 3 ships for Eden com with very broken gun system death sentence in high sec…
we changed … we adapt … but we won’t forget… and we don’t HAVE TO like it… Otela is in my heart and memories we chase each other and gate is there from josameto…
I don’t give any ■■■■ to POCHVEN !

It’s a statue symbol and memorial for me that how DEV created content ruins player made traditional content …

12 years ago we didn’t have that much DEV introduced content in this game … but there was two times of more pilots in the game …pilots who adore the amazing sandbox content … today game turned into a theme park and POCHVEN Is a CCP made empty Tivoli !

No we are warriors… like many others we don’t afraid… just we don’t. Submit ! We have taste And we don’t have to eat whatever heresy serve in front of us

[Arrendis]

@Tipa_Riot

Small inconvenience for the greater good.

For whose greater good? It’s an opt-in system, after all. You don’t want to give people the ability to check that info, just don’t join.

[Arrendis]

@Litsea_Reticulata

Control over structures via the political system in the same way blueprints are managed, withdrawl limits on corporate wallets. The rights to modify structure fits, without risking all the fits being stolen. The ability to submit a construction job, without also granting the ability to cancel other submitted jobs. Transfer of items between corporate hangars, but not into personal inventory.

The ACL system for structures needs to be a lot more granular, yes… but remember, CCP doesn’t actually use it, because they don’t run any large nullsec alliances. So they don’t really know what’s needed.

@Litsea_Reticulata

Yeah, okay, there I was thinking it was just lazy spelling. Enlighten me.

Sure! Short form, a ‘block’ usually refers to a physical object, or an obstacle, like something blocking the path. Obviously, the obstacle usage comes from the physical object, as an obstruction stands in the way like a block of stone.

A ‘bloc’ is a socio-political group, like NATO, the Warsaw Pact, the G7, etc, that operates in synch and cohesively, as if they were a single entity.

Lexicographically, ‘block’ gets listed with the ‘bloc’ meaning attached, but only because common usage in text is so rife with people not understanding that in fact, they’re different words, that the dictionaries (which track usage), are forced to say ‘and people do this, too, even if they shouldn’t’.

From Webster:

\ ˈbläk \

Definition of block

(Entry 1 of 3)

1 : a compact usually solid piece of substantial material especially when worked or altered to serve a particular purposea block of iceblocks of cheese: such as

a : the piece of wood on which the neck of a person condemned to be beheaded is laid for executionput her neck on the block

b : a mold or form on which articles are shaped or displayeda wooden hat block

c : a hollow rectangular building unit usually of artificial materiala wall of concrete blocks

d : a lightweight usually cubical and solid wooden or plastic building toy that is usually provided in setschildren playing with blocks

e : the casting that contains the cylinders of an internal combustion engineengine block

f sports : STARTING BLOCKthe first swimmer off the blocksa slow start out of the blocks

2a : OBSTACLEputting a block on any future development

b sports : an obstruction of an opponent’s playespecially, football : a halting or impeding of the progress or movement of an opponent by use of the bodya block by the right tackle

c medical

(1) : interruption of normal physiological function (as of a tissue or organ)especially : HEART BLOCKThe patient presented with a block.

(2) : local anesthesia (as by injection) produced by interruption of the flow of impulses along a nerve

d psychology : interruption or cessation especially of train of thought by competing thoughts or psychological suppressiona mental blockan emotional block— compare WRITER’S BLOCK

3 slang : HEAD sense 1threatened to knock his block off

4 : a wooden or metal case enclosing one or more pulleys and having a hook, eye, or strap by which it may be attached

5 : a piece of material (such as wood or linoleum) having on its surface a hand-cut design from which impressions are to be printedwooden blocks used for printing books

6a(1) : a usually rectangular space (as in a city) enclosed by streets and occupied by or intended for buildingsShe lived on our block.

(2) : the distance along one of the sides of such a blockThe store is two blocks down on the right.lived a block away from the school

b(1) : a large building divided into separate functional unitsan apartment block

(2) : a line of row houses

(3) : a distinctive part of a building or integrated group of buildingsa block of classrooms

7 : a platform from which property is sold at auctionwent on the block and sold for nearly three million dollars

8a : a quantity, number, or section of things dealt with as a unitbought a large block of sharesa half-hour block of musica block of text

b : BLOC sense 2popular among several voting blocks

vs…

\ ˈbläk \

Definition of bloc

1a : a temporary combination of parties in a legislative assembly

b : a group of legislators who act together for some common purpose irrespective of party lines

2a : a combination of persons, groups, or nations forming a unit with a common interest or purposea bloc of voters

b : a group of nations united by treaty or agreement for mutual support or joint action

3 : a quantity, number, or section of things dealt with as a unit : BLOCK… seeking to buy and sell a large bloc of shares …— Stuart Washington

As you can see, the two words are related (with bloc deriving from modern French, where block descends from Middle English blok, which was also present in Middle French and developed into, well… bloc. Which in French means block, but in English the words are distinct.

[Jenn_aSide]

To me, the entire (apparent) philosophy behind what CCP is doing is the thing that is flawed. People are debating WHAT CCP should do, but not whether or not they should be doing anything.

For the entire time I’ve been playing (since June of 2007), yes, CCP has made changes to the game with outcomes in mind. But to me, it really did seem like CCP was as hands off as any game developer could be. The very 1st “CCP-ism” I ever heard was “Here’s a space ship, go ■■■■ yourself”.

It’s probably what I loved about EVE in the beginning, there was no direction, no one (from CCP) telling you what you should do. They gave us tools (ships, weapons, POSes,) and places to use those tools (space, and the market) and except for adding new stuff or tweaking stats of ships/weapons for balance’s sake, that was it.

We took it and ran. We fought wars over space so poor 2 guys chaining belts on one system let to drama on voice comms. We ran the same lvl 4 missions over and over without stopping to ask WHY that damn Damsel couldn’t hire a freaking bodyguard We grinded POSes and dealt with black screen (no tidi then) issues. And yea we complained about it, because we are human.

Now it seems like they are trying to make us do specific things. Every time I hear the words “conflict driver” I want to scream. Because it means CCP hasn’t learned anything from almost 2 decades of EVE.

That lesson is simple. You can’t make us do anything. We don’t fight over isk or moons or space, those are called excuses, we fight because “screw those other MFs , I’m down for my people”. Putting our isk in some MWD-killing space bubble in every system does jack for us. ’

Changing the rocks around doesn’t do anything either. OTEC and the TTT should have taught everyone that people in this video game don’t fight over anything they can just buy from someone. Blackout and the failure to increase participation in low sec after YEARS of adding rewards to low sec should have taught CCP that no amount of risk makes loss averse (“risk averse” is a stupid saying btw) players suddenly become people who shrug off loss. DBSing space just means no one uses space, period.

IMO CCP should try to (somehow) go back to making cool tools (when was the last time we got something like the MJD?) and the environment to use them in, and let US worry about “driving conflict”.

Give us enough ways to screw with each other and stop thinking that we care about who has what goo or what rock or what rat. We will take care of the rest.

[Makshima_Shogo]

Fair enough you make a good point.
Let me ask something thou, if CCP made a new capital ship that could cut systems off and turn them into a type of pochven system so that you didn’t loose your system because of CCP but you lost it because of a player, would you feel better about it. (ignoring the fact that caps cant go into high sec just the theory of it.)

Outcome - CCP change (predictable outcomes)
Outcome - by player from “ship/equipment” brought in by CCP (chaotic outcomes)

[Tipa_Riot]

For EvE health, and no, it’s not about personal decisions as you like to always spin it. It’s about measures to make big anonymous groups difficult or impossible to manage.

[Tipa_Riot]

@Makshima_Shogo

Hawk is so that I can pvp while making isk, to me it seems weird playing in a ship made to get isk then run away, very anti eve.

This doesn’t make sense to me, as you were complaining about too easy ISK making in Povchen. So you are actually mad that people in Hecates don’t commit to an unfavorable fight against your Hawk?

[Makshima_Shogo]

No you misunderstand, the isk is fine because its supposed to be a dangerous place, I was complaining that if you are in a Hecate or Jackdaw that it is now a super safe place and the danger is gone because of the under 2 sec align.

You really need to stop interpreting everything as a me me me thing and look more broadly.

risk should = reward

under 2 sec align removes risk but keeps reward the same simple as that…

If you have tried to catch a jackdaw multi boxer with 4 jackdaws running faction warfare mission sites in under 2 minutes you will realize how rediculas it is, that its almost impossible to catch any of them even thou multi boxing should in theory reduce each character’s reaction time.

[Tipa_Riot]

It’s a super safe place for Sunesis, Asteros, ceptors, and safe for cloakies. That’s why you see barely anything else traveling. If you create a place where not being in a sub 2s ship uncloaked means certain death, you will force people to fly those ships exclusively.

Be happy that still people are there at all.

[Makshima_Shogo]

That is a fair point, but the hecate and jackdaw are much, much stronger the only exception would be the stratios I guess as they are extremely powerful and have that safety, o and t3c’s… meh.

But CCP are doing something with cloakies so I guess ill wait and see what happens.

@Tipa_Riot

If you create a place where not being in a sub 2s ship uncloaked means certain death, you will force people to fly those ships exclusively.

True the fact that drifters can point you on gate and station is kinda silly and I think their lock time is close to 2 seconds as well kind of strange having gate camping npc’s with remote sensor boosters.
@CCP_Rattati is there a reason for this btw, wouldn’t it be better to let people take gates in poch with bigger ships?

[Tipa_Riot]

As said many times before if you create a pressing environment, options for players get reduced, less setups are viable. Povchen is an extreme example, where only instawarps and cloaks are viable for travel at all.

[Shadalana]

@Fartsniffer_Munba

Veldspar was removed a few months prior. Right now, the only ores, including anoms, that are available in nullsec, are: Mercoxit, Arkonor, Bistot, Kernite, Omber, and Pyroxeres.

to be fair, certain combat anoms contain still veldspar

and I live in 0.0 there is crokite, but like 1 asteriod with 40km³. that less then 1% in a level5 indu system…

in the end you are right. the avarage isk/h with mining in 0.0 is less then mining in high.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

Not to mention the screwed up standings system with these Trig Shits. You can be neutral or blue to one clade but hostile to another, but unless you read the description of the ships you face there’s no way to find out which is which. Plus, the standings list does not differentiate between clades either.

All over: Just another typical screw up from CCP. Nothing new and sadly nothing that will make their lifes as developers less pleasant because they don’t have to fear consequences for their incompetence.

[Dictateur_Imperator]

Until PA ask why they loose a shitons of player and some dev “dismiss” (polite word to said they have choice to dismiss and win a few more money or get fired and get nothing).

[Tipa_Riot]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

Not to mention the screwed up standings system with these Trig Shits. You can be neutral or blue to one clade but hostile to another,

I’m living and roaming in Povchen, and had this bug once, and a couple patches ago. So it’s hardly a big problem.

I’m split on the harsh environment and access restrictions, cause I “solved” it for myself (and bunch of others). Which is fine, as adaption and effort shall be rewarded with exclusive benefits. On the other hand without “normal” folks, targets to shoot are missing.

But the variety of benefits is lacking, and people in Povchen get bored… which eventually means previously committed population will abandon the region, if CCP doesn’t react pretty soon.

[Fartsniffer_Munba]

@Shadalana

to be fair, certain combat anoms contain still veldspar

So do certain exploration sites. Except… when you’re, say, in the only nullsec region where mining is happening (Oasa), and the only combat site that has 50k m3 of Veldspar does not allow barges in.

And exploration sites, unlike any other space, do not have ore in them…
And NPCs don’t drop any ores either.

Any ideas why it is that space that still has mining and ratting going? Anyone? CCP?

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Tipa_Riot

I’m living and roaming in Povchen, and had this bug once, and a couple patches ago. So it’s hardly a big problem.

Lucky you then. I have it all the time when I fly around. In Perimeter I have white Trigs and I am happy because I thought CCP left me alone with this garbage but a few jumps over on my route I suddenly see red trigs and reconsider my praise every time I travel through space.

@Tipa_Riot

But the variety of benefits is lacking, and people in Povchen get bored… which eventually means previously committed population will abandon the region, if CCP doesn’t react pretty soon.

Good. Fester in your cesspool. Why should Trig Shits have it better than Edencom, which has been an abandoned bastard child since day one? Besides, what more rewards do you want to attract people? You have risk-free get-in-get-out cards, you have massive resources, you have ice in overabundance. Use that stuff and people who want to mess with you will come automatically. If you do nothing but camp the entry points, you won’t get that, though.