The Goal For EvE Changes

Communications Center General Discussion
1

The rationale for most changes to eve these days is a simple: “more destruction”. I’ll speak out loud and say more clearly what is actually wanted:

Someone mining, someone killing that mining ship for their own profit, the mining ship joins a fleet of mining ships for more security, someone awoxes them with a fleet, the mining fleet hires a merc alliance to protect it, now they mine peacefully (until the merc alliance awoxes the fleet and gain a bad reputation).

The problem here, is that

  1. Miners are not aware of these options they can do, and neither are they inclined to spend so much effort in the game.
  2. Pirates only roam for fun, meaning there is a lot less pirates there. Most miners survive by being lucky, and even those are rare (most people mine near jita lol)
  3. Mining isn’t profitable enough to rationalize a merc fleet. (and if you buff it there would be too many minerals and the fight doesn’t really matter *already replaced)
  4. This will end up with economies of scale (bigger merc fleets are more trustable and lose less ships) and bigger merc fleets which eventually end up in truce for profitability.
  5. People don’t trust merc fleets (they are so hungry for content they would POUNCE) and don’t trust new miners who want to join their fleet (also for good reason).

1 is happening in highsec, 2 and 5 are happening in all areas of space, 3 is happening in lowsec and non-sov null, and 4 is happening in sov null.

We need much better ways for information to be passed throughout the playerbase to solve 1 and 5.

We need smaller gangs (it is impossible to give someone 1 bil so my ship could be safely moved through Niarja gatecamp, because TEST is big) We need ways of strategy, of small gangs killing hordes of enemies with intel and strategy, or trustful cooperation between multiple small gangs to engage a bigger gang.

We need much more profitability from both mining and PVP. We can have higher drop rates and a heavy buff to mining (and allowing mining ships to drop huge amounts of isk that can be carried).

I understand that eve is a trustless world but we can’t have it be TRUSTLESS. The thing with eve now is that there is too little trust between all players. The only way to get someone to trust me is to join their corp or if they’re incursion fleets or NPSI (or one of us shot the other in PVP or something). (and the joining corp part is stupid because I can join corps with alts)

We need more trust for all kinds of warfare and transaction to happen.

My proposals:
Make a isk “stake” for a character. People could always get new characters for new merc fleets and scam more people, but with this stake they can’t do that so often.

Encourage participation on the forums, point players here for guidance/advice as well as reports on scamming merc fleets (with video evidence).

Heavily buff mining income, have a cloaky mineral carrying ship, and heavily decrease mineral size.

Incentivize (by whatever way) joint activities on group levels and singular levels (e.g. NPSI) in order to decrease number of blobs. (I suggest making “group” a decentralized ingame entity, which you can join multiple and doesn’t show on your board, and “group merge” mechanics.)

Maybe, have metaliminal storm areas have huge amounts of 7x->10x profitable ore for its duration. Nearly all roaming gangs would go over there.

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The first is not compatible with the second two.

3

I am starting to think people are now just posting these kind of threads to get attention regardless if it is negative attention.

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Miners ain’t stupid. Plus, mining fleets form organically all the time, just not usually in any formal or rearranged manner. Just because they don’t do stuff, does not mean these players don’t know how. They pays their money and makes their choices to play the way they want. They then accept the consequences. Or not. Just like any other player.

It’s a bold statement, but lacks a certain finesse. There already are three cloaky mineral carrying ships. The only true one, the kryos can cloaky warp just fine, with suitable rigs fitted, and carries about 62.5 k volume. The way to decrease the size of its contained minerals is already known as compressing ore. Ship that and then refine. And yes, the ore carrying miasmos is more easily cloaky warped due to its better power grid. I have used it extensively in LS for minimal losses. (Tho, what I would have given for access to some form of mobile compression platform in LS.)

The third option is the expensive but utilitarian deep space transport class. Carries the same volume as a maxed kryos/ miasmos (slightly more?), cloaky warps, will take refined ice products, and has a two-warp core stab facility built-in. This combo is why I included it. What more do you want?

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He wants Blockade runners to have 50,000m3 ore transport bays and minerals to be compressable.

And he thinks this would buff the value of mining.

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I would like to direct you to this 1st post of this thread.

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It was this way, they ■■■■■■ it up.

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IMHO, that’s on people to learn. They can do research (watch videos, read articles), learn from osmosis by joining groups, jump on the test server (invasions excluded), or baring any of that, they can pay the tritanium price for that knowledge.

Pirates also roam for profit. You also seem to grossly underestimate the effect of player knowledge on outcomes.

Points 3-5
I’m not sure I get the preoccupation with merc fleets. AFAIK, most miners get by just fine without them.

Small gangs can actually already do some real damage to larger gangs using strategy (I highly recommend you check out ChessurSB’s channel for some enjoyable videos of just that). As you can imagine, this does require a fair amount of player knowledge and good execution to pull off. Thus, you don’t see it everywhere all the time. I do, however, assure that players already do this.

Mining incomes kind of suck right now, I’ll give you that. But a heavy buff to mining will have negative consequences. In fact, that’s why we’re here right now. CCP overbuffed the Rorqual, which allowed players to flood the market with cheap ore. This has led to things like capital proliferation and CCP determining that the amount of ore being produced was unsustainable (hence, resource scarcity). We had our sugar rush, and now we get our sugar crash. Anyway, mining incomes will even out over time. Of course the feast is over, but the less profitable mining is, the less people will do it. Which, in turn, will help mining isk efficiencies to recover. I don’t think they’ll recover completely, but they will get better.

Alright, I guess that’s enough. I haven’t talked about everything, but this is already a wall of text.

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The changes are collectively fascinating - the Trigs creating HS islands and fracturing trade routes. The mineral redistribution will change the supply-chain in all zones, and creates fascinating logistics issues for large scales wars, I.E WWB#2. The addition of quantum cores increasing the value of the structure pinata. Viewing the changes in a holistic fashion, it will change player and player corporation behavior, the price of goods and markets. How wars are fought, attacking a supply chain with mineral bottlenecks, and the necessity for forced regional trade (High, Low, Null) for manufacturing… It’s the adaptation and exploitation (not hack exploit - leverage kind) that will force new player behaviour. I for one, am curious to see how it plays out.

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Much easier movement of ores/minerals means mining will be most profitable in the areas with most defences on standby, while the competition of those heavily mined areas makes mining in other regions of space much less valuable.

Is that really what you want as a miner?

I think it’s a good thing that CCP is actually doing the complete opposite: making ores/minerals harder to move and making more areas in space valuable to mine in. This somewhat counters the consolidation of large alliances and gives smaller corporations a better chance to make ISK through mining.

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Yeah, like, why bother?

They were SUPPOSED to make destruction easier… and they did

For the poor

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Yeah, I don’t know about for the poor. At the moment, there’s a spike in mineral prices, sitting on them or selling them is a win - the cost spikes might reduce what some people can produce when if they sell their minerals now and buy later.

But the finished goods will rise in cost so the margins remain the same. If one is poor, I would assume that people don’t engage in high-frequency PVP losses, so asset replacement isn’t a huge threat,

For the null-blocs now though, they can’t be self-reliant in null, they’ll have to move goods in and out of HS, as well as vice versa.

It’d be a good time to be a ‘spai’ particularly in hauling - hit their supply lines.

These changes might affect the wealthy for once, as the cost of wide-scale battles becomes higher, and the vulnerabilities greater.

Opportunities to shake the balance of power in Eve are rare short of the massive conflicts and down fall of Empires that happen every few years. Null is unappealing, as it’s join bloc and become a cog in machinery or die.

For the moment, I’m mining in HS on an industrial alt, and living my best wormhole life.

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This is because there are too many people doing it. When over half of the game’s population consists of high-sec miners looking for easy, passive ISK, mining will never be profitable.

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Scarcity will = LESS DESTRUCTION.

Higher loss value = even MORE risk-averse.

More minerals and greater industry security = cheaper EVERYTHING = less loss value = more fights = more fun.

Why CCP can’t understand basic human psychology is beyond me. Nobody is going to buy PLEX with IRL $$$ just so they can buy a 500 Million ISK Drake to pvp in.

People will pay $15/mo to fly cheap AF ships into battles of all shapes and sizes though…

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NPE encourages players to join corps and joining a corp is not a lot of effort.

Problem averted.

So youre saying that the fact that there are fewer number of pirates, is a problem for miners? What?

Mining is and can be done AFK with minimal input, effort and risk. Profits should be based off of difficulty, effort and risk. Hence why Mining isnt very profitable. And this is perfectly fine.

No. The only way to kill hisec miners is by ganking, and most merc fleets will not gank, because they do other things in hisec that require them to have a decent-enough security standing.

Awoxing has been removed and you can only be wardecced if you have a structure. If you go around hisec corporations, you will find that most, if not all of them are incredibly welcoming of new players and will accept almost any and all corporation invite requests.

No, theyre not.

So youre suggesting that we should invent a mechanic that would allow 5 players to steamroll 100 players simultaneously?

Are you kidding me?

No, we dont. As I said before, profit should be based off of effort, difficulty and risk. Mining in hisec has none of those. As Arthur Fleck once said, “you get what you f*cking deserve”.

What? No its not.

The fact that you fail to understand, is that Trust is earned, not given. There is plenty of trust and friendship in EVE, and they are well earned. I trust my corpmates and my CEO.

I dont understand what this stake is, or how it is going to prevent people from getting new characters.

How do you prevent abuse? I have like 20 alts, i can spam those points and get tons of perks.

Also, scamming is perfectly accepted, and you will likely be negatively affected by whining about it.

This is stupid.

Again, stupid idea.

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How is EVE more fun when everything is cheap? Let’s say I can buy any ship easily, would EVE still be engaging for me?

No, because loss won’t matter. It’s like those RTS games that you tried playing with cheats for free resources: fun for a few games and then becomes incredibly boring.

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Another person who doesn’t understand that scarcity will affect everyone, meaning that even if a Drake ends up costing 500 million ISK, the output of their work will also be worth more, so the true cost of the Drake won’t be much higher than it is today.

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Mining was fine before. Then Fozzie got triggered by people telling him he couldn’t make a rorqual that people would take into belts, so he broke the economy for years just to prove everyone wrong. Now the mess must be mopped up.

Like giving candy to a baby and then taking it away again. The solution is always not to give it in the first place.

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If this was true, the opposite would also be true.

Lower loss value = less risk averse.

But in reality it didn’t happen like that. In fact the opposite happened. The easier farming became, the more risk averse farmers joined the game and the less content creators joined the game.

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good luck with that.