The Permanent Green Safety Brigade


This PvP game would be great if it weren’t for all the PvP!

We’ve all seen the threads -guys asking for PvP free zones or PvE only servers. Not to mention the uncountable infinity of douche bags asking for ganking to “be properly balanced.” They assert that non-consensual PvP is driving newbros away in droves, and that Eve is on the cusp of greatness… CCP only need to change one little thing… they just need change the fundamental nature of the game. That’s all.

pfft. Dipshits.

Eve is not a PvP game

What’s truly baffling, however, is that some will even go so far as to assert that Eve is not a PvP game. I mean, the name Eve literally means Everyone Versus Everyone. But even if you don’t know the history of its name, a cursory examination of its mechanics reveal that it was designed from the ground up to have a PvP focus. Hell, even the3 initial areas have mechanics in place to make it easier or harder to engage in -non-consensual PvP. I mean, where do you think the names High, Low, and Null Security space come from? How dangerous the rats are?

So, every time someone comes around here trying to claim Eve isn’t a PvP game, I assume one of three things is happening:

  • They are intentionally arguing in bad faith
  • They are practicing self-deception
  • They are a troll

But why though?

Of course, this begs the question, why would people argue in bad faith about this? In fact, why are there so many people trying to remove the PvP from a PvP-focused game? Well, for a while, I assumed this was the fault of the marketing department trying to cast a wide net. I’d see ads, like this quadrant trailer, that made no mention of the PvP-focused nature of Eve, and figured this was by design. After all, it has been alleged by many a youtube commentator that demand for PvP focused MMO’s is greatly exceeded by demand for a PvE focus. So, I figured that the marketing department was intentionally trying to target PvE focused players -which does make sense. At least some of them will stay, and CCP can squeeze a buck or two even out of the players that ultimately end up bouncing.

But, now I’m starting to wonder if that’s the whole story. I recently watched a video about the history of MMO’s, which discussed how the MMO genre has been in a bad state for a while now (i.e. few releases, failed kickstarters, and the MMO’s that have actually been releasing have sucked and/or been riddled with P2W). So, now I’m starting to wonder if so many people keep trying to remove the PvP from Eve online simply because they are desperate for a good MMO that caters to their play style, and want to see if they can’t get CCP to oblige. After all, there is a precedent for this happening.

A Cautionary Tale

For those that don’t know, New World was supposed to be more like Eve Online (always on PvP with a full loot death mechanic), but changed direction late in development due to feedback from carebears (check out this video for more info). Unfortunately, however, the game was not built from the ground up with a PvE focus in mind; which meant that it ended up being terrible at being a PvE MMO. Of course, the game certainly had other issues with balance and bugs, but I think it does provide a cautionary tale concerning what would happen if the “Permanent Green Safety Brigade” got their way in Eve online. Making the transition from a PvP focused to PvE focused MMO would be a monumental challenge for any game studio, let alone one that specializes in PvP games. So, if the PGSB got their way, it is exceedingly unlikely that they would actually get the game they wanted. More than likely, we’d just see a repeat of New World -namely, they’d ruin the game for everyone, and then bounce when things don’t pan out like they had hoped.

I Sympathize with you, but please stop trying to ruin Eve

Look, I sympathize with the guys that want a good, PvE focused MMO that is free of monetization BS. Believe me, I get it. After all, I’m personally disappointed by what has happened to the RPG/ARPG genre. However… however… that does not mean that I appreciate people coming in here and trying to change the fundamental nature of Eve. Even if you did actually get the MMO you wanted, it would come at the expense of those who already love it for what it is -and that’s a best case scenario that exceedingly unlikely. What is far more likely to happen is a repeat of New World, where the game is ruined for everyone.

I know Eve might not be what you were looking for, but it is still an amazing game. So, maybe try enjoying it for what it is. And, if that’s just not possible, consider moving on instead of trying to convince the devs to gamble everything on the slim chance that they might make a game that you actually want to play.

P.S. Can I have your stuff?




If you don’t like a game but there’s a sizable number of people who do then maybe the game just isn’t your thing and you should go play another instead of trying to frankenstein together the impossible something that appeals to all kinds.


You’re not wrong, but you’re missing some things:

  • The majority of anti-pvp people have a staggering lack of self-awareness.

  • They also don’t play the game in a way that’s “competitive”. By this I mean they’re usually inefficient and not at the cutting edge of whatever disciplines they engage in.

  • Ergo, they’re unable to understand that a game that fosters competition between players isn’t right for them if they don’t enjoy that kind of thing.

That’s why I don’t advise ever taking them seriously

On an extended note, PVP is one of the only activities that leaves a public record on one’s character, via zkill. As unfashionable as it is, I often check the corp and zkill history of posters. It’s amazing the number of people who display little-to-no game understanding also have little-to-no convincing history on their account. Even someone who welps ships on the regular displays a willingness to try and is infinitely better than another forum alt LARPing.


I’ll give you this, Shipwreck. You have mastered the art of beating a dead horse.

You’ve started this same thread at least fifty times. Different words. Different memes. But the same tired topic.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:


Forum bingo card is a bonus thanks.


me to but i gave a heart for the effort
and i truly think it must be a magnificent post

recommended 10/10

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Good stuff brother.

You know its good cause it makes Epeen jelly :smiley:



Your little tail is wagging. I think you were so excited you even leaked a little pee.

But what I don’t understand is why. What is it you’re trying to say?

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:


yea @Mr_Epeen is so jelly


He really is.

Its hilarious to see how jelly he gets when a forum regular posts stuff and gets recognition.

I do pity him in a way :smiley:


Well, to be fair, it’s not like the PBSG has stopped making their threads. Hell, this community has been having the same discussions for so long, people sometimes link to threads on the old forums. And if the old, old forums were easier to search, I’m sure people would be linking to it as well.

And, I know I haven’t made a video in a while, but I also like to workshop my arguments on the forums first.


Vintage bingo card. Classic stuff

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Pretty good summary of the problems that MMos face when balancing the PVP vs PVE aspects. In the end you need both - doing it one way or the other will bring its own problems. In the it is always about balance between those two, which also means the discussion will never go away. I thing CCP is aware of this, after all EVE survived and evolved, whenere other games like this did not…

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Nice meme material, but not a good strategy to give voice to the QQers.

I see ads all the time that very clearly display Eve as PvP. There’s even an ad that specifically mentions ganking…some lady mentioning how she kept being blown up in her mining ship. The ads are clearly all targeted at different potential players, and some mainly focus on industrialist stuff, but on the whole they clearly specify Eve as a ‘dangerous’ place where you could be attacked by anyone. So it is somewhat of a myth that Eve is not advertised as PvP.

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Ah yes…zkill…the place where a person gets listed as making a ‘Solo’ kill with just 0.4% of the actual damage made. ( I came across just such a case yesterday ).



Lol…you want a link to some random case I came across ? In any case there are literally hundreds, possibly thousands, of such cases. ‘Solo’ kills where a person got less than 1% of the actual kill.

I’m just curious how that looks like. Was it a kill with NPCs on it or other players?