The purpose of the pendulum war

(kul Shaishi) #1

At this point it’s basically live fire testing ground for Prototype and military doctrines.

(Laurentis Thiesant) #2

People live in that warzone, you are aware of that right?

(kul Shaishi) #3

Yes I am

(Deitra Vess) #4

The purpose of the war zone and the war itself is simple: Learn the tactics you may someday need and grow experience flying with people who you more than likely will be fighting along side as your enemy does the same. The war itself is pointless in the long run. The side you fight on, to an extent, doesn’t really even matter since If i really wanted to I could be flying under the State Protectorate and jump ship the next day. It does however give you the closest thing to real experience towards fighting the real war that one can only hope never comes. It also gives you a unique chance to train with the others who you will be fighting if thats what you choose to do.

(Sinjin Mokk) #5

The purpose of the war? Profit. Profit for CONCORD, profit for the Empires.

All the war is, is a meat-grinder and ISK-Generator. There is no strategy, no way to win, no way for it to end.

And CONCORD was made to create peace…

(Elmund Egivand) #6

However, the military doctrines used in Pendulum War are going to differ significantly from the ones used when shite really hits the fan.

First up, Titan functionality is gutted in the Pendulum War so whatever doctrine used by egger pilots will need to be adjusted for full Titan functionality, which they will have some trouble with due to lack of practice unless they also participate in the sovereignty wars out in Null.

Secondly, interdictors. Interdictors function very differently in Emergency Militia Act warzones vs Null. Whatever doctrine the warzone eggers come up with won’t take into account of the interdictors and heavy interdictors that an actual war is going to see deployed in large numbers.

Also, warzone eggers do not generally do hotdrops, which is something a Null egger is going to be very familiar with. Another point of consideration.

I see the Pendulum War as a method to keep eggers from doing real significant damage out there. Keep them busy in the warzone so they do not focus their aggression on the real important systems.

Also, prototypes imply that there’s only a small handful of these new ships being released for use by select test pilots. Any new ships that enter the market are circulated widely. These are not prototypes but marketable goods. They were already tested before they entered the market. Just not by us and not in the warzone.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #7

The CEWMPA agreement is essentially the formalization of what is usually referred to as a grey zone conflict: characterized by low-intensity war between state or non-state actors and carried out by irregular, militia, insurgent, or private military corporate groups. They are wars that are by definition ambiguous because they do not directly involve the conventional military of a state or nation. The ultimate objective of such wars are the instigation of a continued climate of destabilization in a particular territory, usually through the use of armed proxies, in order to achieve strategic goals such as the annexation of territory, or access to or denial of resources, without the use of a full scale military confrontation in the conventional sense.

Ultimately, since each side involved can say the respective militias are semi-autonomous and the capsuleers involved simply “volunteers” they have no real control over since they operate under DED supervision, then the continued destabilization of the regions involved in the pursuit of strategic goals can proceed with less risk of full-scale war and direct military confrontation of the states involved.

Since it appears all the states involved have an interest in doing so, the conflict will most likely continue for years until that is no longer the case.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #8

“real experience towards fighting the real war” if the war is limited to T1 frig and dessie blobs.

I think I’ll stick to wars where there’s more at stake than imaginary flags that does nothing for the systems in question. There hasn’t been a significant display of strength, warfare capability, clever tactics or heavy logistics in the Pendulum Wars for years now.

Think a real war is going to look anything like that? It’s a puddle pretending to be an ocean, and splish-splashing in a puddle isn’t going to teach you anything you need when the real ship starts sinking. No, the Pendulum Wars teaches nothing and the edges they sharpen are all the wrong ones. When real war hits, there’ll be some rude awakenings I can guarantee you that much.

Their only purpose right now is being a nice safe space to herd the weak and psychotic for profit and entertainment. You want to learn how to wage war, there’s far better options out there, but that also means putting your ISK and a whole lot more lives on the line.

(Teinyhr) #9

I’m assuming you mean null-wars, and I’d like it if you didn’t pretend those are any different. They’re just different flags moving around for equally if not even more pointless reasons. While I’m not particualrly fond of the pendulum wars, at least some of them fight for something else than to just pad their wallet - even if it ultimately is for naught.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #10

Except that’s quite demonstrably just wrong. It’s not even just null, but low as well, but let’s focus on null since you brought it up: Null space holds value. There’s a reason to take and hold space in null, in that it is exceedingly valuable in terms of resources, industry opportunities, bounty hunting and more. It also requires investment and effort, on a scale far beyond anything the Pendulum Wars can offer.

Even if you don’t fight for that, the actual tangible resources and opportunities, there’s still more reason out there than in FW. Someone fighting in order to stand beside those who stood beside them, have a far more ‘real’ cause to fight for than the blatantly fake and dishonest “cause” of the Pendulum Wars. “It’s about the person next to you” is a motto among us, and others have their own variants on the theme. I can tell you from having fought in both, the latter holds a damn sight more truth than “for the Empire” or “for the State” when going out to kill someone else.

Null or low, even sometimes highsec, all holds vastly greater reasons to fight and kill than the Pendulum Wars, because you can actually do something with what you fight over. You can create something. Industry empires, vast customs networks, military complexes that Pendulum Wars couldn’t match if you brought all four together.

And more importantly… you can learn how to actually fight capsuleers in a war. Not pissing around beacons in closed off little complexes or get reduced to T1 frigate blobs through the sheer dumbfounded design of the PW complexes and their worth. How to break an enemy, how to make your own group resilient against such vast force and logistics and finances on unimaginably large scales.

No different? There is no comparison. It’s a pedaled tricycle next to a heavily armed hovercraft. A candle next to a star.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #11

There is anything wrong with fighting just for the sake fighting – because it’s about the most excitement you can have in life outside of a well lubricated salubrious session of tribadism.

(Deitra Vess) #12

Because after all, there is nothing to be learned aside from waiting on a titan for a bridge, or sitting around in a (super)carrier all day waiting to shoot a fortizar or tower. I can simply orbit and activate my guns on command too. Why I could do that when I was simply shooting at angel cartel ships. Since you can’t seem to see around the idea of joining a large group and waiting for others to call for a fleet, obviously you’ll miss the little things: like actually finding a fight instead of having one handed to you. Like finding targets you can actually handle and pushing what those limits are. Like, oh I don’t know, striving to actually improve instead of joining U’K and orbiting buttons. It’s extremely rare I fly with more than 3-4 people in my fleets and I’d like to say I’ve learned a lot. Your militia mileage may vary.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #13

Do you think life in null doesn’t have all those things? Small-gang activity, solo hunting, and so on? Everything Pendulum Wars have to offer is right there in other low and null entities. They’re just not limited to only that pitiful pretense of war. All it does is remove the training wheels - FW sites/plexes - and adds more tools to play with.

(Jason Galente) #14

Sov is overrated, and fighting for someone else’s rule is extremely overrated.

Come to Anoikis. Because ■■■■ it, this system is ours because we say it is and can back it up with a fleet. Not because of some flashy glowing module that I pay CONCORD to rent. Who really owns the system then?

If you come out here, you better be ready to trailblaze, and bring civilization with you. He who has the strongest fleet and infrastructure owns the place, it’s just more honest that way, don’t you think?

(Sinjin Mokk) #15


That sounds like SOV with extra steps.

(Jason Galente) #16

It’s actually less steps. You don’t need to do the silly entosising. Just build the citadels you already would’ve built, seed your fleet, and it’s yours until someone tries to destroy you. Not your rented structure, you.

If it’s like sov, it’s sov without being somebody else’s pay-bitch.

(Deitra Vess) #17

Having done it with a few various groups and moved back to Lowsec for my own project, I fully agree those things do in fact happen, frequently even. I will say in the time I’ve been flying in the militia I’ve maybe captured 40 complexes, run 7 missions and been involved in close to 5 Infrastructure hubs. Thats over the span of about 1.5 years and achieving total warzone control twice. I don’t tangle myself in those aspects of it, I fight and thats about it. My personal opinion is if anything were to happen to our Republic it would happen in Lowsec rather than Null. Do you practice shooting with a water gun to prepare you to use an assault rifle? I don’t. Totally different applications. Do you honestly think you will get more familiar with people who will one day fly by with you by flying with people with nothing invested in our struggle? Doubtful.

In the end I see it as two different sets of equally important standards. I feel the standards in Faction War or Lowsec in general would be more similar to when the inevitable comes. Plenty to be learned in both, and a few lessons that carry over between each other and should be learned in their respective areas.

(Teinyhr) #18

Yeah? All space holds value. Same ■■■■ in a little more shinier package to be honest.

Sounds real noble, but “It’s about the person next to you” is often followed with “and damn everyone else.”

Like I said, sounds like same ■■■■ in a different package to me. I’ve been everywhere, too, and I’ve found most places people fight for suck in equal measure, only thing that changes is how much money you can make. That’s a pretty sad life to live, let alone many lives.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #19

So you have no actual argument for it being the same thing, other than you claiming it is, in spite of all the demonstrable massive differences? For one, one of them actually sees actual wars, while the other barely get to see pissing contests? That one is actually valuable in terms of industry, infrastructure and how it affects capsuleers while the other has exactly feck all impact on anyone, even the capsuleers involved? If this ‘sounds like same’ to you, you’re deliberately ignoring all the blatant differences.

And Deitra, if you think a real war would be fought in plexes and with a dozen frigs or dessies as the main investment, I don’t even know what to say. There’s just nothing in PW that even remotely resembles war. You don’t have to head to null though, in that regard. Just look at the real powers in the warzones for an example of something much closer to such scales, which in turn dwarf the entirety of every PW participant in New Eden, like Shadow Cartel or their contemporaries.

If the ‘war fighters’ of the Republic and Empire has to cower in fear whenever powers like that stick their nose into a system, or bend the knee to them whenever it’s demanded… then they’d certainly be pretty bloody useless when a real war starts.

The Pendulum “War” has no purpose. Everything it can teach, is performed and executed by any fighting force in New Eden anyway, and everything it doesn’t teach… well, I can guarantee you that those things will also play a serious role should there ever be actual war between the nations.

(Teinyhr) #20

My argument is the same as yours, which is our personal feelings on the matter. And basicly you’ve still done nothing but say that there is just more money to be made there, which isn’t that compelling of an argument to me that it’s any different than the rest places on this cluster.

Hey, if you can find childish enjoyment in cat-fighting with other empyreans over money and industrial bases, then I’m happy for you.