The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value

Communications Center Out Of Pod Experience
1264

A lot of people will (unfortunately) use BTC and Lightning over custodial services, like CashApp, RobbinHood etc. While that is not ideal and puts the control over their coins into the hands of this companies, at least it will dissolve all this proprietary payment networks and make this apps interoperable, not only among themselves, but also for people who like to have full ownership. It also takes away pressure of having to onboard everyone to Bitcoin directly right now.

Still, we have to work hard to make controlling your own wallet easier and more secure and at the same time extend the scalability. All of this is happening, but changes to Bitcoin are very slow on purpose. The goal is to have a a fully decentralized money and not to replace paypal. Replacing paypal would be nice, but sacrificing the good monetary properties for it would be a mistake.

But there are things in the works for a long time, like channel factories, mimblewimble extension blocks, concepts to onboard users without them needing an on-chain transaction, etc.

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1265

But nobody does properly researched future prediction. :grinning:

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1266

Yeah, it’s actually possible Jack Mallers talked to Bezos, lol (https://youtu.be/CZ-2su2O-BQ). They would literally save billions if they adopted Lightning because they would not have credit card fees.

Since CashApp is on-boarded and RobinHood announced it, there is already a huge customer base who could use it. And they don’t need to pay with Bitcoin, because that can just be the bearer asset to transport value.

If something like that would happen the other payment apps will probably follow. Why shouldn’t they?

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1267

Here is a really great explanation why helping stabilizing the grid for Bitcoin miners is even more profitable than simply mining Bitcoin no matter what.

In case this isn’t obvious. Having such highly dynamic load on the grid makes it a lot easier to bring more renewables online and actually utilize them fully, which makes them more profitable. So when the wind stops blowing or demand spikes, instead of bringing more gas and oil online to balance, they simply power down.

The whole narrative about Bitcoin mining being bad for the environment is completely backwards. It literally helps to enable a future with renewables.

And no, you can’t simply put something you find “more useful” there instead because you think Bitcoin is always a waste, and storing that energy is insanely difficult. All other industries can’t react that fast and they will cause supply chain issues down the line, Bitcoin doesn’t.

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1268

This is just greenwashing…

BTC’s high energy usage is NOT a positive.

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1269

Yeah I completely disagree. You just throw out an accusation without an actual argument to substantiate it.

Using energy is not inherently bad. Our whole civilization is dependent on the abundance of energy. What is bad for the climate is using energy sources that burn fossil carbohydrates and add CO² or other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere in doing so. If you don’t get that, you haven’t really understood what the issue of climate change actually is and are just parroting the media who blames the cause on energy usage in general.

What we need is not to reduce energy consumption, but replace electricity creation with renewable sources that don’t pump fossil carbon into the atmosphere, like hydro, geothermal, wind and solar. But that is not an easy task, because the energy grid has to match demand and production. Storing energy is very difficult and not available in the capacity that is needed to balance renewables on it’s own.

The reason we still have so much oil, coal and gas power plants on the grid is because they are currently required to balance it, because they can respond and scale very quickly to demand.

In the absence of such power plants that are flexible sources, we need more flexibility on the demand side to balance the grid. The more such flexible capacity there is, the more you can replace fossil fuel plants with renewables. And because renewables like wind and solar are extremely volatile because they are weather dependent you need a lot more overproduction, which is extremely expensive if you can’t sell it under ideal production conditions.

It’s astonishing how people react to this. But not with actual arguments, but mostly with anger, because it seems to go against everything they are being told the last couple years.

Then again, it’s not you who needs to understand this, people in charge of the electric grid and power generation already understand this or are just now starting to understand that Bitcoin mining is actually something that is heavily beneficial for them and they will start to integrate it heavily, if the politicians aren’t dumb enough to outlaw it first.

I’m convinced the whole Bitcoin energy debate will completely flip 180 in the next couple of years.

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1270

You can disagree, but if you would have to use energy of your own muscles each time you make transaction in BTC, then you would quickly stop paying with it. You wouldnt even eat so much in one day to have so much energy. Its so inefficient. Its only because people use high energy resources, in large part not renevables, that you can pay using bitcoin.

Meanwhile paying with cash is simple gesture of taking your wallet out and giving the money. You dont have to provide your name or adress, and nobody will ask you where did you get all that money.

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1271

Nana, why are you even participating in this discussion? You don’t actually have anything interesting to say on your own, you don’t address any of my arguments, you just say random things you couldn’t even defend if pressed to do so.

It’s really just random noise at this point

1272

I think you do not think about it, and thats why humans, not only you, will have to see how inefficient turns into unsustainable, and then into gone.

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1273

I think lies come about because they want people to dislike Bitcoin, it’s shocking how much people believe without fact checking. Electric storage is looking a little better these days so we may see much more stored in the future.

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1274

This video touches on what Karak is saying, the price of lithium would have to decrease by a very large factor in order for it to become viable for power plant level storage.

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1275

Li-S, then Lithium will have to be replaced with something cheaper, like sodium.

But it doesnt make BTC any more efficient, and you will need a lot more energy for all the engines working now on unrenevables. The pressure will be there no matter what.

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1276

I dare you to lookup how much electric is wasted worldwide due to them not being able to store it. I think you’d rather the excess electric is wasted rather than put to use on BTC, it’s shocking where our beliefs can lead us to.

1277

I dare you to look up how much blackouts are caused by the BTC miners. Causing entire countries to adjust their LAWS. Yes, the laws are adapted to stop the ‘poor’ people from suffering loss of electricity because their neighbour can’t stop mining BTC at a loss. That’s not waste energy. I can understand that anarcho-capitalists think this is the way to go but it isn’t. It’s not only polluting, it’s now also grown to a scale that it’s disruptive to society. See, BTC doesn’t scale well. Running an energy wasting software by random gullible people isn’t teh way to run a worldwide currency. Below some examples;

Kazachstan

Iran has to forcibly cut off BTC miners but their fear is the "upstanding BTC miners who need to be anonymous -not to do illegal stuff lol-

Russia is planning to remove the cruypto miners :

Mostly because of the “upstanding, law abiding” BTC miners.

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Meanwhile (january '22), the 20% of the hashing is done in China again, illegally. I’m not sure if those who can’t be bothered following the law in search for profit will actually care about the environment. That’s literally 20%. Let that sink in.

Here is the map for January 2022;

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Yes, January 22 because a lie is fast hut the truth will catch up.

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1278

You forgot to mention USA involvement in Iran politics stopped and delayed the building of new nuclear power plants. In 2015 significant restrictions were placed on Iran’s nuclear programs in exchange for sanctions relief. Nice try though, using a country that has energy problems even without bitcoin mining.

Weren’t nuclear arsenals actually tested in Kazakhstan by their government which caused numerous health issues to the people in the country?? Of course they have energy problems as from 1972 to 1999 they only operated one nuclear plant. It looks like they are looking for sites for new power plants in Jan 2022.

I’ve looked up their electric generation: coal 73.8 TWh (69%); natural gas 21.5 TWh (20%); hydro 10.0 TWh (9%); solar 0.8 TWh; wind 0.7 TWh.

No nuclear power generation, Why are you using countries who can barely support their electric need regardless of Bitcoin as examples?

The reasons they stated for banning crypto are: threats to financial stability, citizens’ wellbeing and its monetary policy sovereignty. They didn’t seem to mention shortage of electric.

You forgot to mention almost all mining farms in china worked off of hydro power where mining operations were built next to powerful waterfalls that were used to generate electric, their main problems seems to be people stealing electric, I’m not reading anything about electric shortages.

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1279

If this video is to be believed then it’s actually renewables that’s causing further pollution issues.

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1280

Well, maybe inform those who mine BTC there, I think they didn’t read the newspaper. :wink:

I’m not BTC miners are. The issue is the due to no real laws BTC miners popped up, did their thing and if nessesary will leave without cleaning up after them. After all, it’s a net loss.

Well, then they have even more reasons. Scary if that is what BTC leads to. :smiley:

A lot probably did, but thats not proven. Apparently there was also a lot of coal used. But I cannot prove that.

In short, the countries (BRICS) are trying for the new world reserve currency. They will make sure BTC will be outlawed in their areas so it will remain within the organized crime groups in those areas. Because it’s like… outlawed. So the ‘It’s the future’ might be getting further and further from reality.

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1281

You know you can stop the video when they start talking about bird deaths.

This is the best video I have seen so far analyzing the nuclear situation:

I don’t think there is a way around wind and solar honestly. They are constantly getting improved and cheaper. If we solve the volatility problem and I think we will, I don’t think Thorium will actually be profitable when it’s ready.

And fusion, there is already a running gag that it is always 50 years away.

1282

I forgot to say your previous post was not bad but didn’t really have good rebuttals. It was nicely worded though.

Anyways, now we have that off our backs, renewables aren’t very good. Nuclear could be a temporary situation but fusion is what would be a dream resource. Not sure if we will get there in the near future as it’s not near anywhere viable. But as more and different researchers are looking into it, it might be probably we will one day have it in the distant future.

France is smart and will do the good thing and nantionalize the EDF energy company. France plans full nationalisation of power utility EDF | Reuters

Decentralization of the energy like in Texas didn’t work at all. But that’s with anything in the U.S.A, when there is a problem, they don’t make a solution, they can, they have the scientists and intellectuals, but they make a commercial system that will profit of the problem making sure the problem persists or the company goes bankrupt. Also the company doesn’t make enough money to stay profitable and needs government funds to keep on going. Literally converting public funds into private hands.

The energy crisis is one of the clear examples of how the design of BTC was rigged to fail from the start.

1283

No it’s just that you still don’t understand how mining works. lol