The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value

They probably have a percentage based cost on top of that and that doesn’t cover the cost when it is below 5 bucks.

Very interesting, because I have seen companies only accepting debit or credit cards above a minimal amount as well around here and suspected they have base fee like that.

Yeah this problem would definitely go away with LN.

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I think I can see what all the fuss is about, retailers in uk are being hammered with fees;

Honestly, I have no idea how some small businesses survive in the uk. I honestly think retailers will have a serious look at coincorner, The only issue I can see it how to get the customers using BTC, unless the customers employer pays them in BTC or they are on Nicehash with their GPU’s they will have to buy the BTC from an exchange.

Maybe they should raise the taxes? And not only favor “the small guy” who’s a billionaire?

But I don’t think paying less for a transaction is wrong, I just wonder how someone does that and be abel to follow the same strict rules there are to avoid the guys who have a lot of finances stashed on the Isle Of Man.

Wait, I was told a few posts ago there was no need for crypto nor for the consumer nor for the businessman?

Let me tell you the history of electronic payments. “Hold ups”. See, no more millions in cash makes robbers not shove a gun or rifle in your face (or machete/knife in the UK). The investment in a payment terminal saves the life of the retailer against criminals who used to see shops as free money dispensers.

So for the electronic payment terminal people, the worth is the security they have. This and the guarantee of a good service. Is it possible those companies will go bankrupt and their employees unemployed? Probably if they do not adapt to a situation, but as Karak said, they have too much overhead in terms of accountants and lawyers who make sure they don’t get sued for a gorillion. It’s nice to dream to see it being replaced but how are you replacing the lawyers? Once you are in serious business, a solution where you say “yes the network is down but that’s random guys who live in their mother’s basement and I think today is cleanup day and they can’t use their PC’s until their rooms are tidy.” See, taht’s not a good businessmodel. Does it work? Well, one can never be sure, some very bad businesses survive. Drop shipment businesses are still going strong although it’s a bad long term idea. But then again, we would not be in a crisis if bad practices were stopped fast. So all I see BTC is become the next bubble. And the advantage for the rich is “Well, you don’t really own that money and no one guarantees you it’s worth.”.

“Boo boo! Hate BTC!”, well since one of my phones doesn’t have an adblocker I am getting 100% pure scam crypto adverts. Says enough about how early we are in that industry and how bad the justice system is in fixing the issue. The giant tech companies don’t care, they just prey on the weak and sell the adverts.

Now, those nodes, since no info is on who runs them. Do you have any idea if they make a profit if so, do they pay taxes? It’s still a very shady world that loves to stay shady because tax free businesses are way more profitable than legal ones.

Look at Canada,

“And where there was product available, the price was almost double that of the illegal market. C$5.59 to C$10.23 per gram (or over £40 a quarter ounce). That was caused by tax burdens and overheads:”

See, check your own business, who do you pay? No one, how much taxes? Nothing, what regulations you follow? None. There is no secret business model, organised crime is simple profitable as they have no rules to follow, and they can do “as they like”, it’s anarcho-capitalism. It makes lots of victims and with so many supporting it with their wallets, one will have to wonder how to fund the hospitals.
Switzerland is renowned for its expense, but many expats are still surprised by how expensive healthcare is, especially when compared to neighboring EU countries. Switzerland’s healthcare system is known as one of the best in the world, but also one of the most expensive. So it’s hard for people in the UK to understand they will have to start paying for the NHS when their isn’t enough income tax as most profits are hidden in the shadow.

I never saw that.

Nobody has spoken about replacing anything, only you totally on your own. I have spoken about crypto being an alternative in addition to current payment services.

Again, this is from you and no one else. CoinCorner for example is a Ltd company in the UK who is legally registered with companies house. I’m pretty sure it’s not run from a teens bedroom.

That’s fine for you, nobody here is trying to convince you of anything. I am just trying to make sure you have some facts straight. The bottom line is…if it can securely process transactions at a fraction of the cost then that will be of use to everyone.

You must really think people are joking out here, in the UK businesses are being pushed hard, very hard, they pay through the nose on everything and so many are going bankrupt. Something has to change otherwise all you will see is just the big retailers because it’s too expensive to own a small business.

Do you really think a struggling UK business owner would take you seriously with your “btc is a scam”

For everyone that owns and uses BTC for transacting. So a fringe part of the market, mostly people who want to buy things “pseudonymously”. In a shop. That has security cameras.
I think the hole crypto thing is something shady that needs to be converted back to real money or goods because otherwise it’s useless private money.

Maybe if he doesn’t have laser in his eyes he can see better?
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-08-03/microstrategy-bitcoin-s-laser-eyed-michael-saylor-is-blind-to-1-billion-loss
Then again, not his money so he doesn’t care if he loses it.

“No one legitimate will insist that you buy cryptocurrency.” :smiley:
Just quoting, lol.
Not in this situation where they are afraid and scared, “plump and ready” to be plucked by a scammer.

So where would the scam be then? A retailer contacts Coin corner and gets the terminals to accept lightning payments. A few customers still use visa or cash and a small handfull of customers use BTC with Coincorner/lightning then the retailer checks they’ve received the right amount in their coincorner account.

If at any point the retailers money disappears or if there are any other problems, they can cancel the service and contact the police since coin corner is a Ltd company legally registered with companies house in the UK. In the UK if the CEO of a Ltd company is convicted of any crime they can loose the ability to be a director of a Ltd company.

Feel free to point out where the opportunity for scamming is, I personally can’t see it.

The CEO of CoinCorners name is on the line, it makes more sense to do good ethical business and earn good money rather than doing a silly scam for pennies and loosing your entire ability to earn due to a conviction.

With apps like coincorner or strike. They are basically like Venmo, Revolut, etc, from a user perspective, but instead of their own payment network they use the open standard Bitcoin + LN. They can hold and spend $, the apps convert it and send BTC.

But the basic technology is then open to everyone, and there can be a free market of apps and payment solutions on top of it that compete with each other for merchant and customers, while still all being interoperable.

They will still exist. But instead of profiting from an effective market duopoly they all have to compete with each other on who makes the best experience and additional services for merchant and customer.

Bitcoin + LN is just the barebones payment network. But a lot of the resources those companies wasted was maintaining their own networks, based on credit, because that was the only money that worked at communication speed, but that is fundamentally based on trust to work.

Well, just because everyone can run this nodes doesn’t mean you have to open channels with some randoms. Businesses will make sure they utilize well run LN routing nodes from well run businesses that make sure everything is up an running. The difference is that even there you have a free market and competition.

This is probably similar to internet service providers, but instead of data for liquidity. But unlike internet providers you don’t require expensive equipment and land lines. To make a new peering with others in the network, all you need is a single transaction on the Bitcoin base layer.

So you have actually many different roles and markets that appear out of this and they all compete for a share of the pie.

At the moment I doubt this is profitable, just because the transaction volume is low. But there are companies already positioning themselves and invest in being the first to market to provide this services.

Well our healthcare system is payed by the patients or better the mandatory health insurance. The reason why it’s so expensive you can see live if you ever have to go to the doctor and you can’t find one because they are overwhelmed servicing all the old people that life longer and have more increasingly expensive treatments than ever to life even longer.

But that’s a different topic. I think there is a solution to that and it’s coming. We have to cure aging… another controversial topic that seems counter intuitive at first :wink:

The situation will not be different to people paying with cash. The tax office would maybe like to have direct access to credit card payment systems and all banking transactions, but I doubt they have that data today. So this isn’t really a good argument, as companies still will report income and sales, no matter the method of payment. This doesn’t just work today because of constant all seeing surveillance and it’s also probably not a good idea to build that.

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The reason I linked the Canada situation is because I would have linked a closer by example from The Netherlands but there an investigative journalist was killed because he was investigating the wrong criminal drug lord. Those anti social elements want to take over power. So always be careful what you support. I rather err in the case of precaution than to end up in a world where the social part is gone. That’s why I stay away from BTC/Crypto. And Why I will make sure no one goes around -even naively with reasonable intentions- supporting the evil behind ‘new business activity that will make everyone like rich’.
But I can be wrong and Lightning could become quite the technonolgical advance the small businessowner needs. Time will tell.

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree. Not because Bitcoin, but out of principle. You could say the same thing about the internet. Unregulated and encrypted communication and exchange of data could empower normal people, but it could also be used by malicious actors to organize crime. So what are we going to do, undo the internet?

Almost every technology ever invented empowers people when used for good, but it can also be used for evil. But if you believe in humanity then you also have to believe that the absolute majority of people are good, and they will use technology for positive things that helps society flourish. It’s almost always a net positive. Even though there can sometimes be unintended side effects, like with the internet, we are still animals that evolved in small social groups and can’t handle that we are suddenly globally connected.

A knife is just a tool, it can save life in the hand of a surgeon or end one in the hand of a murderer.

The fear of the consequences of new technology is understandable, but Bitcoin isn’t a nuclear bomb, it’s money and a payment network. We had many many iterations of money over the history of our species and it never included an access point for surveillance and a switch to disable access until very recently.

Bitcoin is just one of the latest and it brings pretty nice advantages, like even the fact that it is an unforgeable ledger, something that sounds trivial but we literally never had that in the history of humanity. Or the fact that it can reach a significantly bigger part of humanity than the banking infrastructure we currently have, because all you need is a smartphone and internet. It exports property rights to people who don’t have that, because they live under oppressive regimes or who’s economy suffers from hyper inflation.

I trade this advantages for a few criminals who utilize it, but would find other ways anyway every day.

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Maybe take your own advice and consider your support for Warren Buffet. From my perspective it seems you already have full and total support for the type of people you’re suggesting we stay away from. Warren Buffet purposely denied black people mortgages which I see as oppressive.

Anyone who supports oppression will hate BTC with a vengeance. BTC was designed with the little guy in mind and you’ve even read parts of the original whitepaper which has no mention of “double your money” or “earn 20% on your investment” in fact BTC was designed to help with the problems in society relating to finance which is mostly what the whitepaper focuses on.

I think you need to go back to the beginning an attempt to understand what BTC is, focus on Who created it and why and try to switch off from the “earn 20% on your investment” and “double your money with BTC”, it really is ■■■■■■■■ and you really should not base your entire opinion on this total and utter ■■■■■■■■. BTC will be whatever people make it, if lots buy the price is high, if lots sell the price is low.

This thread is a goldmine of info with a handful of people talking nothing but fact about BTC. I really hope one day you can understand what BTC truly is, It’s creator is a philanthropist as he was able to analyse what’s going on financially and present an ADDITIONAL way of doing things which can benefit others if used correctly.

N.B. Giving your entire life savings (or BTC) to a company owned by the likes of Do Kwon who will buy/store BTC and create another digital coin for people to use is not the only and proper use for it. Anyone believing this is all that can be done with BTC has been manipulated. Put on your tin foil hat and start from the beginning.

So, lets say for example you are buying from a retailer who only accepts BTC, the item you want is £100 so you buy £100 worth of BTC and do the transaction with the retailer and receive your £100 item. This is one of the proper uses for BTC.

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I don’t like Warren Buffet, lol. I just quoted what he said. If Neil deGrasse Tyson would download a car (which by my knowledge he didn’t do), I would still respect his opinions on astrophysics.
Wheter I link some quote of him or not, he’s already powerfull so I do not have to worry about what would happen if it changes, he’s stuck for years and did not succeed on removing the social engagement of the large portion of society (yet).

Anyone who wants 1984 style oppression will love BTC, as it tracks people. Not that you might not have a point but the opposite is also true.

I know that, I see where it went and stepped out after some weird adventures. And it’s been 10 years later and still most of the activity it are scams. But yes, a small portion now does look like legit business using BTC.

I think you need to say “take off” but I won’t, ( read the following as if I say it in some weird voice ) you are one of those government agents… that want to read my mind if I take it off! I WONT! YOU’LL NEVER GET ME!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyways, your posts are becoming better and better. Unlike the value of BTC, which I actually tought would go up with the trillions of USD that are spent in commercials about it.


:smiley:

Are you able to explain how? If you’re unable to explain how BTC tracks people are you going to revise your opinion?

:stuck_out_tongue:

That’s why I am waiting from the sidelines and will probably use it if it has any real advantage (not the double your ISK scheme) or even if it’s being used in the background. If I pay 5 euros for a small transaction I don’t care if VISA/Carte Bleu or some Lightning companyt gets the profit. I do not want to have it in the hands of people who will run a bunch of slaves to work for them just to cut off a few eurocents. That’s why government oversight is needed. You can’t base a monetary system on just a bunch of randoms who act like cowboys in a wildcat bank.

You see, when they tried to clean the money and bring it into the fiat system they were caught.

All they had to do was watch the BTC address the stolen BTC was sent to and then keep on investigating any address the stolen BTC gets sent to and eventually they would get a name of someone they can arrest and question using methods outside of the blockchain.

Stealing BTC will never work as government methods are sophisticated, I’m also thinking no other criminal will want to help launder it as they will know the crypto address it was sent to is being watched. So anyone looking to steal BTC will eventually get caught thanks to the blockchain being designed the way it is.

Yes, this is the way it should be. Wait for it to be developed further and presented in a way you understand, if you see a benefit in using it for some of your transactions go ahead.

This is the interesting thing about studying economies a massive change can happen which can benefit smaller retailers who struggle, we might not realise it but many smaller retailers pass on those costs to us and they already have difficulty competing with the big money competitor.

I’m really interested in what retailers have to say about all of this.

I do like American retail and marketing so I believe many will want to accept the BTC they know many people own just so they can say “We Accept All types of payments, Cash, Crypto and Debit” then it might be that the retailer who isn’t accepting crypto is lagging behind the others.

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But that is what you get if you have government oversight. That’s why Bitcoin just has clear transparent rules that are secured by everyone using it.

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At least it’s not going back to the ‘old’ system ;

:open_mouth:

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I am so excited for 2023. This new GPU will give me the same performance as an RX 6900 XT and will cost around £450 to £500, the TDP will only be 200 watts which is slightly more than the RX 6600 XT. On paper it looks like the amount of BTC I earn on Nicehash will almost double for a few more watts of electric, this is great news.

I made a decision to not buy the RX 6650 XT’s and postpone further purchases until 2023, I also had to consider space as each of my rigs can hold 8 GPU’s so 8 of the RX 7700 XT will be like having 16 RX 6600 XT’s, theoretically I will have the performance of 2 RX 6600 XT’s while only taking up one slot. I can’t wait I’m so excited.

I’m still very happy with the current price as it represents much of the world being fully aware that certain types of BTC investments simply don’t work in the face of an economic downturn or recession. I’m very happy with my investment skills, I haven’t been greedy and expected to double or triple my money and for a couple of months there I did have to put a few pounds of my own money onto my electric mining cost.

Nicehash have been amazing and I have lots of respect for them, they seem to have set a minimum cost for renting hardware remotely which brought all my RX 6600 XT’s back into profit. I suppose this is a good business move, if remote miners want processing power then they can’t really expect the seller of processing power to do it at a loss!

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