The Room for an Argument (specialized Off-Topic)

Would your (as a member of Templis CALSF) allies in the former Gallente militia group Federation Uprising agree, Ms Kim? Or would your allies (as a member of the Caldari State) in CVA be more likely to agree?

I have always wondered if trying to win arguments with strangers requires forms of narcissism I do not possess. It all seems rather self-aggrandizing.

It mostly just requires self hate

Those who get excited from winning arguments with strangers are about same as those deranged pirates, who go all excited for popping a random ship and then bragging about the killmail. Our cluster, unfortunately, is full of these people. I don’t think it’s a narcissim though, it’s just… Well, I don’t know.

As for me, I am repulsed by their behavior and consider them dumb (probably that’s the reason of nickname I gave to Arrendiot). I myself feel excited by defeating only terrible people, would it be in the space or forums. It feels good if I destroy an enemy of the State in space or show place to some obnoxious jerk on forums. I think it’s a satisfaction from delivering justice and making our world to be maybe just a bit brighter. Maybe same gallente occupant won’t murder more innocent civilians if I pop them in space. Maybe same forum troll won’t insult other person because he will be busy yelling at me and being logically defeated.

And when I feel a bad person - that can be felt quite easily, honestly, if they talk disrespectfully, if they make assumptions about their opponent in the argument or just outright lie about other person for the sake of proving them “right”, or they talk with sarcastic remarks instead of being honest, or just attack the State or Empire - I have a deep desire not to “win” against them, but… do everything I can to not let them have what they want. If they want to “win” against a stranger that would happen to be me - I simply won’t let them. Because they don’t deserve it.

While I won’t decry someone arguing because they find it exciting, feeling good, or satisfying, I personally find such reasons too indulgent for my own tastes.

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Indulgent by making world better?
The more scum we fight, the better lives for everyone (except that scum).
It’s a feeling of job being done good, if you did your work good, you should feel good, isn’t it so?

I am Deteis and was enculturated and trained as such. Priority was placed on self-control and moderation to achieve an effective emotional and psychological baseline without the distraction of sentiment which was part of my childhood indoctrination protocols, and remain standards I try to maintain. As such, I believe my work should be prosecuted in accordance with established rules, guidelines and operating procedures, separate and distinct from my own feelings on the nature of that work – irrespective of successful outcomes.

If you are going to introduce something in my mouth, i ask you again, let it be nice for both of us. I can do wonders with it if you are interested.

Are you implying there is a soul, and if there is, it is not perfect?


… and here again we see why we don’t get along.

Much like a spirit or god, it’s not necessary for the “soul” to exist as something distinct for it to be a useful concept. Even if, as I do believe is the case, there is no separate, spiritual world (in dreams or outside of them), there is still the track we leave passing through this world: lives touched, stones turned, patterns reinforced or interfered with.

I don’t need to exist as a spirit or even a separate being for there to be a sort of uttermost self for me to nurture. And if you behave as though such an existence isn’t real or can’t be twisted into something horrifying, even being objectively correct won’t save you.

Oh, ok. There are certain words that are like a prisioner being pulled by 4 horsed cars, sometimes is hard to get to know what direction you are pulling among all the screaming.

Not that all screams are necessarily unpleasant for the person, of course.

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No worries.

One of the great difficulties of our faith (or belief system, if “faith” seems a sticky word) is that it involves a whole lot of using words to try to express stuff that isn’t readily describable even through metaphor. (The totality that can be seen/touched/named/described is not the true Totality, etc.) The result is inevitably just piles of misunderstandings, with only glimpses, moments of insight, beckoning us on until maybe, just maybe, we finally reach our goal.

I know I can be pretty hard on you, but I think really we’re each as lost as the other: each clever, neither wise.

I like rough too. :heart_eyes_cat:

Yes, you write this thought a lot. The difference is that i am not going anywhere.

Oh, don’t say that. It’s hard to learn anything new if you don’t go anywhere.

I think all the misunderstandings would be dissolved if you and the Achuran people would abandon the heresy of Monism and embrace the truth of Duality:

God versus Molok.
Chosen versus sinner.
Amarr versus Minmatar.
Holder versus commoner.
Master versus slave.
Paradise versus Hell.

All the existential angst that characterizes Aria’s writing comes down to her inability to accept the existence of other; the not-me, the enemy, that which is unholy, impure; the Minmatar; that which must be purged in cleansing lazer fire.

And her inability to accept that which is eternal; that which is not maya, illusion; that which cannot be willed away with the right mediation or mind trick, but which lasts forever and ever and ever; an eternity of pleasure and pain. God. Paradise. Damnation.

Sane versus Crazy loopy nutty heretic?


But whom will you destroy after you exterminate Minmatars?
Speaking about Amarr versus Minmatar, I don’t see much of the conflict from the Amarr side. They don’t treat Minmatars as existential threat and fight them only because Minmatar invade the Empire and behave like crazy criminals with their “bla bla bla free slaves, whatever” fanatism. Otherwise… I am pretty sure the Golden fleet would have already steamrolled the Republic down.

Imagine that happens - and what is next? That will break the concept of duality and to keep that you will need to find a new enemy. And do you know, whom then you will become? A gallentean.

I mean, not a gallentean by genotype, but a gallentean in your mind.

They always need some enemy to fight, probably to support their political regime. They make enemies out of nothing, just look at their conflict with us, Caldari. We would be more than happy to just trade with them and live with them in peace despite they’re so amoral disgusting filthy swines. But no - they need to fight us, capture our homeworld. And even with our homeworld occupied by these oppressors, they still wanted to fight us. They just need an enemy! An enemy who doesn’t get subdued by them like numerous weak nations that they devoured in the process of their spreading like infection through the space. An enemy who won’t accept their dumbifying brainwashing in ideals of freedoms and democracy, an enemy who will just want to live their own way independently.

I believe not in duality, I believe that everyone just tries to hold for their own interests - and protect them. The duality is just a justification of attempt to steal someone’s other interest while trying to represent them as “bad” while they are not so.

And no, I don’t claim that Minmatars “aren’t bad”. I am just saying, that they should be fought because they are invaders and bullies, not because they’re “your hostile part”. A military conflict should be a way of solving problems, not to perpetuate hatred for your political agendas like gallentean, Mr. Nauplius.

Wars and weapons are the tools of last resort when nothing else works. Don’t grab a sword when there’s no reason for it. But once you grabbed it - never let it down until you or your last enemy falls.

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Never before have I seen so much insight and so much muddled and distorted thinking in the one bit of writing.

Possibly there has been no serious attempt to reconquer the Republic because, for one, it would be a serious breach of CONCORD treaties and, also, it suits some within the Imperial power structure to have external enemies that can be used to frighten the commoners and covertly raided for slave stock at the same time.

Not that they are very picky about where they raid. I can recall fighting slave raids on SoE holdings within the State when I was working for the SoE security agent there.

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And you, I assume, just another halfwitted minmatar, whose lack of mental capacity prevents you from understanding what was written, so you blindly jump into discussion just to bark your insults at whatever you don’t like?

I don’t think the rest of your mental diarrhea is worth reading and answering to, though.

While I do agree that this man is a bit insane, it can generally be assumed that nothing else will work. Most people are too obstinate, too stubborn to be reasoned with when they are in error and war becomes inevitable between them.

Can you off-topic in an off-topic? Because I sort of want to agree with you.

And I just want to point that against against Gallente, so, yes, that still sort of can be considered an argument. Why gallente? Mostly, because they our enemies and I have experience arguing with them a lot. With all my attempts, I knew only one gallente enemy that could argue respectfully, unfortunately, he is nowhere to be found now, probably retired from the capsule at all.

I disagree with Gallente almost in anything, and I disagree with Mr. Nauplius, for example, almost in anything as well. But with Mr. Nauplius you can argue politely - without fear of being insulted over what you say. Try that with a gallentean, I dare you, try that. Tell them where they are wrong and how they are wrong, oh no, they won’t be even listening to you, they won’t be countering your argument, they will start making up stuff how terrible you are! And if you will insult them back - they will began squeal that you insult them becaue of “THEIR OPINION!!” While you insult them only because of their insult and they did in fact insult you becasue of your opinion.

And I have to say this is just so sick and disgusting. Add to the pile, that it were they who were aggressors, and when we came to save our people from their aggression they call us warmongers. Great, huh?