I mean really 20+ years to fly all ships and utilize all features in EVE to their maximum potential?
I’ve been with EVE Online for almost an entire decade (just a few days left) and sure I’m used to the time grind that is the skill system in EVE, but what do newcomers think?
I’m sure if they saw the 20+ year skill cap most would think it was absurd. I remember just how long it took to get into the next tier ship and use the next teir weapons/mods. The grind is absurdly horrible for both veterans and newcomers alike. Just think how many months it can take for newcomers to play with us in any competitive sense without spending a ton of extra money on skill injectors. Don’t you think that the extremely slow progression that is the skill system turns people away from the game?
It’s high time that CCP got around to fixing this terrible part of the game. CCP already has in place what it needs to fix this problem in a fair and equitable manner. Lets say we lower the skill cap from 20 years down to 10 years. This would effectively half the training time for all skills. Long time players can easily be reimbursed their time investment in the form of skillpoints. And of course we should be able to use skill extractors so we can sell those skillpoints to others or we can use the injectors on other accounts we have. In this example the 10 year cap will be enforced in that when a new skill is introduced it compresses the rest of the skill tree so as to prevent the cap from being breached. Of course we would get a few unallocated skillpoints due to the adjustment.
Think about the easier time newcomers will have progressing in the game due to such a change. And of course vets get their skillpoints back so they can be sold off in terms of skill injectors.
If we can save newcomers from the terrible slow progression EVE currently has then perhaps that would help them to stay and play with the rest of us. And veterans don’t lose out on anything considering we would get our skill points reimbursed for us to train up other skills or sell them off to others.
Newcomers would have a more positive view of EVE and they may stay longer. And every new subscription means more development money to improve things for all players.
The 10 years example is still a bit too absurd, but it’s a starting point.
Let’s add some more positive chaos to this “Chaos Era”
What are you on about? I recently started Albion and there you have to farm the same amount of time just to be able to use 1 single class of character perfectly. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about when you put EVE in context of other games.
In contrast to Albion, you can also use a lot of different ships quickly to their maximum potential. More ships, in fact, than you could ever afford or reasonably use. At just 160M SP, you can use a lot of capitals, almost all combat sub caps (at least 1 combat sub cap from each class) and some industrials. You can also engage in a whole ton of activities from PVP to mission running to mining to ratting to exploration to scanning.
The problem is not the 400M maximum achievable SP; the problem is people like you who make it look like a problem and people who believe people like you. Oh, and of course contemporary gamers are also a problem. Back in the days, when EVE didn’t have skill injectors, EVE was more popular, more crowded, more active, more enjoyable than since injectors and all these contemporary players joining the cluster. Back in the days, when you actually had to train these SP and the maximum was indeed 20 years away. Unlike today where you can be at max in as little time as you manage to click “Activate Skill Injector”.
I can understand the way you think and I myself have 170 SP over ten years without ever using skill injections. I remember the days when the learning skills were still around and I had to train those before moving on to other skills. I just think the skill system is a bit too bloated and needs to be capped and shrunk considerably.
This will help everyone’s speed of progress in the game in terms of character skills. It would only have a positive effect overall and it would most certainly help the new player experience. And all the veterans can easily get reimbursed with skill points to be used on other skills or sold as injectors to others.
Sure other games may have long progression like EVE, but that just means it’s just as absurd. Capping character skills/points at this point would only really have positive effects.
We all know skills don’t matter THAT much, but still progress doesn’t need to be this slow. And getting more new players to stay would be a huge benefit.
You are absolutely correct, the skill cap is to high.
I am of the opinion that one of two things should happen, either the games skill levels should be modernized to 3 levels (probably something like basic, faction, advanced) or there should be some sort of new benefit to content that grants bonus skill points freely.
I favor the fore, but the latter has impact in a positive way on ccp’s income rates (by hitting alpha cast faster, you will have to subscribe faster).
lets say with skill point drop based bonus system
If the average player gained say 1-2m a week this would enable a catch up rate of about 4 1/2 years.
Professionally, i favor the first option (or a reduction to 3 skills, with a smaller bonus) because of the fact its cleaner, and more reliable. In general, more professional.
Iv been a strong advocate for reducing the skill training times by changing the way in which the skill levels increase their time frames; advocating for a change from for example, double each level (2,4,8,16,32) to something like 20% each level (1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2 hours/days/weeks/months). Iv also advocated that if this change is not practical due to technical reasons of playing with base code, that it should be looked at reducing the requirements for a lot of tech 2 options from the primary level 5 to level 4. by primary i mean, for example if hac’s require level 5 cruiser, to reduce it to level 4). If the ladder i’d even advocate for some sort of “bonus” that only becomes active when level 5 is obtained, as a point of encouragement to meet the original requirements (as we term, min-maxing).
I don’t think CCP ever intended any character to train every skill to level 5. You are expected to optimize your character for a few roles. A well trained industrial or subcap character takes about 2 years (without injectors). Why would anyone want level 5 mastery for every ship in the game?
I want to touch on this point for a moment. I am a developer, currently working on a space-mmo sandbox. We will be using a similar progression system to eve (skill points etc etc).
The issue is not that ccp uses this system. In my opinion this is probably one of the most innovative changes of its time, and was light years a head of anyone else. The industry is just now getting around to creating systems like this. From a basic level it makes so much since, being that we gate your (player) game play around systems (like experience systems) that ultimately end up being time anyways.
The problem is that ccp has not modernized its positions. It’s running on outdated constructs and principles. To boot, eve was largely created with those same principles (for example, designing a game with high levels of complexity directly effects the potential population rates a game could have).
ccp needs to consolidate a lot of its systems into more moderate concepts, which evolve largely around the number 3 (its hard to explain but basically this number is some magical, blessed or other wise special number in game development). 3 of anything seems to be the best thing, two often results in one of the two sides being overpopulated or powered, but for some strange unknown reason, 3 seems to bring balance to all of it, almost like the universe, or some higher power decreed it so.
Getting all skills to level 5 isn’t really my point so much as the overall slow progress in the skill system. Sure, most skills you don’t really need to train to level 5, but the shear amount of time it takes to truly explore the possibilities in the skill tree. The skill cap just seems too high. The most important aspect of course is that it hurts new players too much. The more new players we get the healthier the game will be. However, I fear the massive training times can be one of the factors turning them away. I know it would take years for a new player to be as proficient as I am. They need to be competitive with us more quickly.
I started Eve with 50K skillpoints and absolutely no idea what I was getting into - my brother said “give it a try”. 4 months later I was running level 4 missions in a meta fit T1 battleship. My player skill and character skill were advancing together. I don’t think it’s a problem with progression - you don’t want character skill moving faster than player skill. I think the problem is that there is no place for basic T1 hulls in the current meta. That’s what CCP needs to change - T1 subcaps that newer players can fly should be the backbone of fleet compositions.
