EVE skills STILL take too long to train (Sponsored Streamer Reaction)

Once again we are confronted with the fact that wait times for skill training between ships, weapon systems, and activities is STILL too extreme. Once again I need to point this out. If we want new players to stay then the wait between new ships, weapon systems, and activities needs to be SEVERELY reduced! The wait times are still too extreme! CCP has made progress towards this end with skill injectors, reducing skill point requirements for lower tier sub caps, and skill points for various activities, but it’s still nowhere near enough. Also, the skill point max is around 40+ YEARS! That’s far too high.

Maybe cap the skill point max waiting time to 10 years instead of 40+ while reimbursing skill points to us veterans. Maybe we can turn those excess skill points into injectors? Also, it might be a good idea to give skill points or increase skill point accumulation when a player is using a particular skill. An example being getting skill points for the mining skill while mining or accelerating skill point accumulation while doing so.

Don’t think this is a problem? Listen to a new player that was actually sponsored by CCP:

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Veteran players will still be light years ahead of new players, no matter what kind of “speed ups” you try to implement…

The wait for skills to finish training is a major bummer for EVE. For me it allows me time to read up/watch videos on what interests me and would like to do ( down the line, i.e after all these necessary skills are complete ) but for EVE it means I’m not playing the game while I do all that.
But I do understand that EVE is to be played over the long run, months and years so a couple of weeks is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The skill training system works just fine. It’s not our fault that the current generation of gamers have the patience and attention span of a toddler on crack…


I think skill training is with the constant SP rewards, boosters you can buy and daily missions that grants SP in healthy spot right now (not to mention you can now buy SPs directly with credit card). New players just needs to realize that this game is a long-term investment. It is a game that you gonna play years, or not at all.

Eitherway, I am not shocked that the crybears wants to have maxed skills instantly. It is their nature and the more you give them the more will they demand.


Investment in what?

It’s never enough, they always want more. Because of that you might as well not listen at all because even if you give into their demands they’ll find something new to cry and threaten to quit about.

Having said that: the new SP system CCP is working on would make things a lot easier and friendlier. I just hope they don’t go overboard with the “streamlining”.


Of course, but skill points aren’t everything as we both should know all too well. I’d rather have the newbies stay and play with us though, but what they see as extremely excessive wait times between ships/equipment is completely unacceptable to them. This is one of the biggest reasons they don’t continue with EVE. I offered to mentor this particular newbie and I also suggested that she gather her followers into a massive fleet to go roaming around. Having a few hundred lower tier ships roaming around can cause quite a bit of damage/havoc.

They already get 1 million free SP right off the bat, not including the 350k SP that comes with a brand new toon. So they get to start off with 1.3 million SP. What more do you want? A brand new Alpha toon can start doing Abyss runs on Day 1…


And with Gnosis and Praxis, level 3 security missions are also doable.

And if you invest those SP into scanning, then I believe you can max or nearly max the maximum skill levels for Alpha. Which is enough to hack regular relics and datas even in WH.

Likewise you can huff gas in WH in first day that requires very little skillpoints.


Long story short, new players have it easier than ever. You can get 1.3 million SP, 50 million ISK, 27 free ships, and access to L3 missions on a day 1, brand new Alpha toon. Takes about 12 hours. New players just don’t want to put in the effort required to do so…


We both know that doesn’t amount to much of anything. What tends to keep the newbie players to stay with EVE is when they’re flying with a larger group of people. However, in order for most organizations to see someone as useful they need to fly and effectively use doctrine ships/equipment. Also, doctrine ships/equipment will change regularly and so they need to be able to fly multiple different doctrine ships with varying equipment.

In order to keep these newbies we would probably need to get them to that point within 2 weeks. That’s far faster than newbies can train currently, but if we want to keep them that needs to happen.

We all know that training times are extremely excessive in EVE compared to pretty much any popular game out there. If we want EVE to get bigger and better we really need new players to be competitive more quickly.

So basically you’re not actually interested in new player retention or the PVE aspects of EVE, you just want a horde of F1 fleet monkeys…


Yeah this is why I am not a fan of nullsec alliances recruiting noobs. There is no content for genuine noobs in nullsec. Belt rats too strong, anomalies too difficult, signatures even more difficult and relic/data too scarce and they are confined within alliance territory and they are being told to skill t2 ships from day 1.

Then of course they quit. But that is on you recruiting a new players into proclaimed end game. This isn’t game’s fault, but yours.


None of that is relevant. The newbies need to be flying with us as soon as possible to help with their retention. In order to fly with us they need to fly multiple doctrine ships along with effective equipment. It seems to me 2 weeks is the timeframe that needs to happen within. EVE really can’t become bigger and better without the newbies, but the newbies can’t stand the wait times. It won’t hurt us “bitter vets” to have the training times change especially if we get skill points reimbursed.

A lot of EVE players need to suck it up and accept training times simply take too long for newer players. The newbies want to fly with us, but the wait times to do so are simply unacceptable.

If CCP wants to retain new players it needs to happen. A lot of new players see the huge exciting battles and would like to join in. However, once the newbies see just how much time that would take to get anywhere near that point they tend to give up and quit the game. The progression in EVE takes far too long for the extreme majority of players. If we want more good things in this game training speed needs to be put into overdrive.

If the newbies want to participate meaningfully in the big battles then training speeds need to be massively accelerated. The main groups in EVE are in 0.0 and if newbies are better retained by flying with said groups this needs to happen. It’s time EVE’s training system went to ludicrous speed:

On what evidence are you basing this supposition?

I’ve played a lot of games over the years. I can’t recall any of them where the expectation was new players were going to jump in, and in a matter of hours (or even days) have decently geared setups and abilities and be out mixing it up with the vets.

MMORPGs almost all have levelling/gearing processes that take weeks. Yes, they do use a carefully-refined process where you gain early levels and new abilities fast - 5 minutes to level 2, 10 to 3, 15 to 4, etc. To get players hooked on that sweet “Ding! You’ve gained more power!” ride that eventually turns into a massive grind.

EVE is a little behind the Pavlovian curve there, since they don’t really offer that levelling “Ding! You have a new power!” feedback. It’s more like a clock ticking in the background, every 30 minutes muttering “You’ve gained a 5% bonus in a fraction of a skillset”.

It’s an experience designed to a different beat. After a week of play in EVE, a new player has gained an amount of “power curve progression” that’s lower than a typical MMO, but not so much behind that they’re in different ballparks. It’s largely because the power gain trickles in in the background, with too many unrelated skills that have an accumulated but not obvious effect.

“Your shield is 5% larger, your armor is 4% more resistant, you have 5% more powergrid, your turrets have 3% more tracking, your repair modules use 5% less capacitor, you can now use Hybrid turrets with a 4% range boost”, all of which happened without fanfare in the background (mostly while logged off) has a much lower visceral impact than “The kobold dies. DING! You now have Firesword and Earthshield! See a trainer to equip your new gear”.

(Of course, the combat itself in EVE has a much less visceral impact, but that’s another problem.)

New players in EVE can get into tackle, explorers, destroyers, even cruisers reasonably quickly. That’s enough to be effective in a lot of situations. The problem is less that they need more skills more quickly, and more that the skill-gain is packaged poorly, in too small chunks, and that the complexity of the game mechanics prevents them from using their new abilities effectively.

It’s a heck of a lot easier to learn to Cast Earthshield, Summon Firesword, and go in swinging, than “Scan down target, lock it. Get into optimal range. Click orbit. Click weapons. Trigger application modules. Adjust velocity to maintain range. Watch shields. Trigger repair. Reload.” etc. etc. And that’s without even considering the rigamorale of buying, picking up what you bought, fitting it, and figuring out what you’re even going to do next anyway.

This is a more valid point. In which case, you don’t just hand out fast SP. You give people SP boosts or unlock skills specifically for flying with a group and accomplishing something together. This is what Resource Wars could have/should have been for, except that CCP… well, they did what CCP does and turned a great concept in a clunky DOA waste of coding time.

I’d be fine with giving new players unlocks of certain skill combos: “DING! You completed Resource Wars tier 1 with a fleet! You’ve unlocked all the 1st tier skills for your racial frigate type! Signal your fleet commander when you’re ready for Tier 2!”.

Then it’s a system that specifically rewards new players, specifically for flying with a fleet, and isn’t something that can be exploited over and over by vets.


If CCP wants to retain new players they need to be flying with other groups of people. The groups that could handle a massive surge of newbies would be in 0.0. In order to get 0.0 groups to accept said newbies they’ll need to fly doctrine ships. The newbies don’t want to wait too long to fly with 0.0 groups and so the training times need to be accelerated quite massively.

This is what needs to happen in order to get new players to stay and to make EVE into a much bigger/better game. The more newbies we can get into the game the more content their can be. The more newbies the more 0.0 content. The more newbies the more high sec content.

Speeding up training times doesn’t hurt anyone in the game and so there really isn’t any downside.

Ah, okay, sorry. Thought you were talking about actual new player retention, and not “I have an agenda in mind that involves getting hordes of new, probably Alpha alts into null doctrine ships super-quick.”

You should have just said so at the start, and we could have ignored it right off the bat.


I’ve been playing this game since 2009 and I’ve seen numerous cases in which this was a mentioned as one of the problems with the game. I recently saw one of the streamers I follow playing EVE and she reminded me of this issue once again. So, once again I’m on the forums posting about this problem.

They need to be in DOCTRINE ships in order for 0.0 groups to truly accept newbies. However, newbies don’t want to wait too long to be in said 0.0 groups and so they need to be able to effectively fly doctrine ships much more quickly than is currently possible. In order to accelerate this, training times will have to be sped up across the board due to the number of general skills used in doctrine ships.

The resource balancing phase really didn’t have anything to do with skillpoints or ships in general. It had to do with balancing the resources mined vs the resources destroyed. It wasn’t balanced and so CCP decided to do so like they have with isk faucets/sinks. SP boosts are great, but it’ll have to be enough for doctrine ships. If you can fly doctrine ships you should be able to do most of the content in the game.

It doesn’t effect you in any negative way. If general training is accelerated then it speeds up your training time too. If the 40+ year skill cap is reduced in a way that effects skills you’ve already trained then a SP reimbursement is a reasonable solution.

If all training is accelerated for everyone then it effects everyone equally. If everyone is super, then no one is.