The sustainability of the New Eden cluster


(Tornii) #23

I have always wondered about the environmental impact of both planet-side and asteroid mining. Now with the advent of moon fracturing, this concern is higher than ever.

We need an independent scientific inquiry into ramifications of limitless drilling of natural bodies for both private commercial profit and benefit of military-industrial complexes around the cluster.


(Teinyhr) #24

Well, eventually we’ll run out of resources. I suppose this inquiry should be tasked to study for how long can we recklessly waste natural resources until we need to find another part of space to pillage until we’ve consumed it all.


(Jev North) #25

You lot really underestimate how much sheer mass there is to even a tiny moon.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #26

Was about to say. Given the amount of systems we have access to in New Eden, and the amount of moons…

… I just tried to do napkin math on how long it’d take to actually spend all these resources at the rate of current periodical mining yields in New Eden and I ran out of napkin rather quickly. I’m not sure humanity could possibly exist that long and still be even remotely close to… well, human.


(Jev North) #27

You get to order-of-magnitude calculations like “Sure, I could exhaust this moon, by producing a few dozen Raven-class battleships. Per second. If I’d started in YC 0. And only a modest few parts-per-million of the moon’s mass were useful elements for their construction.”


(Ria Nieyli) #28

Jev, when you put it that way, it sounds like a daunting task, however. Fracking would tear chunks out of the moon. Meaning useless elements would also get dragged into space. Enough fracking and the effects of gravity would eventually tear the moon apart.


(Jev North) #29

:thinking:


(Teinyhr) #30

Granted I am no geologist, but how much of that mass is actually usable as raw materials? And at what cost, is it feasible to consume entire moons without a dire need where costs are irrelevant? And while I’m no ecological bleeding heart either, there is an ethical question on how badly should we ravage celestials under our control. If you have no qualms about leaving barely-held-together husks of moons and planets after you, well, then I guess there is no problem.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #31

Had a look at the closest moon to me - a fairly small one - and even if it was just one part per million were useful, it’d still come out at 7.35e13 kg of usable material. That’s a LOT of zeroes. This is the absolute lowest end of estimates I’m willing to make as the more likely amount of useful material extracted would probably be one if not several orders of magnitude greater.

We’re talking billions of tons of usable material on that low end estimate. On a relatively small moon at that.

I haven’t checked what the average amount of moons per system in New Eden is, but there’s roughly five thousand systems in New Eden and as I understand it roughly half that in w-space. A very very lowball estimate of moon averages translates to an extremely conservative forty thousand moons. Now remove all that are tied to inhabited planets in order to avoid tidal issues etc and you’d still probably sit comfortable with the majority of these.

Another set of zeroes to add to our number then.

The tl;dr here is basically that we can churn through moons as fast as we possibly can and it’d still be like the proverbial bird sharpening its beak on a mountain once a day, then wondering how long it’d take to turn the mountain into dust.


(Jev North) #32

Gravity is what keeps moons and planetary bodies together, not the structural strength of the materials involved. Dump your waste rock back onto the moon after pulling out aforementioned parts per million, you’ll be fine.

And again, on any kind of human scale, you’re barely making a dent in the thing, unless you’re at it for millennia. By that time we’ll probably have all died out, or advanced sufficiently to be directly peeling stars for usable mass.


(Sinjin Mokk) #33

Except it doesn’t work like that. I’ve flown against DED and other governmental ships for my associates in Curse.

Catagorically, the baseline invaders had a very bad day.


(Ibrahim Tash-Murkon) #34

As said already even when considering very, very long time scales we have a practically limitless amount of resources to access even before considering future expansion. There are only two truly unsustainable things about which to worry: humankind’s desire and ability to engage in increasingly destructive forms of warfare and pension programs.


(Jason Galente) #35

Lowsec is still very sparsely colonized, and cities in the core high sec systems are being built in ever-increasing layers to accomodate population growth. If CONCORD ever did try to assert direct control over nullsec, it wouldn’t be profitable for them, for quite a long time. And in order to do it, they’d have to put the leash back on capsuleers in a way that would make us much less useful to them. I don’t see it happening unless the political structure of the empires change a lot.


(system) #36

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