This was a much needed update!


(Hopelis) #1

Great job CCP, this forum update far exceeds any expectations I had for it! So far it seems to run smoothly and has a ton of awesome features. We will see with time how it performs in the long run, but so far so good. Don’t listen to the players that say it was time that should of been invested in the game development. In my opinion it was time well invested and will provide a strong means of developer to player communication in one centralized area instead of there being posts spread out at several different medias. :thumbsup:


(Merias Tylar al-Akhwa) #2

It took a little while to adjust but I seriously dig the new forums. I find them a lot more comfortable to use. There are a few things I hope they tweak but they’re on the right track!


(Xuixien) #3

The forums are mechanically better than the last ones. The true test of whether they succeed or fail will be in how heavily or lightly they’re moderated. Right now CCP is competing with other platforms, such as reddit, which is hugely popular.


(Rivr Luzade) #4

I would not call that competing, but rather something like pandering. If CCP used their platforms for releasing info and gathering information/data on their projects, they would stop wasting a lot of time trying to monitor all the third party mess out there.

What has the moderation to do with the pandering? Do you suggest CCP should moderate their forums more light just to attract back the cancer of other platforms?


(Xuixien) #5

Could you post this in a more coherent form, using words that mean what they actually mean so it makes sense?


(Rivr Luzade) #6

How much clearer do I need to be? Maybe this: Do you advocate for anarchy on the official forums just because lots of people can’t post coherently and/or only useless memes on reddit in order to prove the success of this forum reboot?


(Xuixien) #7

No, what you’re presenting here is known as a “straw man fallacy”.


(Rivr Luzade) #8

A pretty strong straw, considering that one of reddit’s activity principles is chaos and you hinge the success of the reboot on how this forum will be moderated. I rather grab my straw than what you implied. :slight_smile:


(Xuixien) #9

That’s called a “non sequitur”. Your reasoning here is incoherent.

I implied nothing. You simply read your own bias into it. As such, your failing here, I think, is in incorrectly interpreting my post. Here, I’ll help you. I originally said:

The true test of whether they succeed or fail will be in how heavily or lightly they’re moderated.

How heavily or how lightly they’re moderated. The previous forums were too heavily moderated, and they died, and everyone moved to reddit. I never stated any opinion on reddit’s moderation (each subreddit is moderated independently from the rest of reddit, you realize this yes? Each subreddit is like it’s own separate forum), only that CCP is in competition “with other platforms”, and I provided reddit as an example.

Being a little slower on the assumptions, reading your own bias into things, and logical fallacies will help you immensely.


(Rivr Luzade) #10

The kind of moderation (I don’t think it was heavy at all, considering what the GMs always have to remove from topics that I watch) kept things comprehensible and all the drivel out of the conversation, or removed it afterwards. The people that left where those who could not contribute properly to the forum because their way of contribution was rather questionable.
That my assumption over your implied opinion on how this forum is and should be moderated would be wrong is not really believable as you got quite opinionated in your detailed explanations.

The competition is not really important if CCP stopped putting information out there and instead used and promoted their own forums and medias for this purpose. People could complain all they want over this but CCP has their own services to gather info on certain things in order to not waste time with having to sift through all the other sources of “information”. Nothing keeps people from discussing and creating things elsewhere, but if they have something to say that should matter to CCP, they should use CCP’s services for that. This also brings the added advantage that you know who you are talking to when you respond to some interesting suggestion or ludicrous idea, even if it’s only a forum alt, instead of some random individual hiding behind an alias.


(Xuixien) #11

Wouldn’t a forum alt be “some random individual hiding behind an alias”?


(Chance Ravinne) #12

Agreed, way better overall. :grin:


(Morrigan Laima) #13

There’s a few things need to be aggressively moderated for forums to succeed:

  • posts that add nothing new - that is, that are completely redundant within the topic. Add value when you post or GTFO.
  • posts that are just “me too!” - use the like button instead, that’s what it’s for.
  • personal attacks

Beyond that, it’s just keeping topics where they belong, merging topics when someone starts a duplicate thread, and splitting threads when someone gets too far off topic.


(Xuixien) #14

Careful with that one. Getting rid of “personal attacks” could sterilize the forums. And what constitutes a “personal attack”, anyway? That’s such a broad term.

EVE players are wild and untamed. They cooperate when it suits them. They compete when it suites then. They help eachother when it suits them and they grief and destroy eachother when it suites them.

EVE is a competitive game and competition breeds rivalry and smacktalk.

EVE players are not interested in a “safe space” where you’re forced “play nice” with eachother and can’t smack talk your rivals. It doesn’t suit them. That is why the EVE-O forums are dead and everyone migrated to other platforms.

I’m not advocating anarchy, by the way. But CCP needs to lighten up and let EVE players be EVE players on the EVE forums, or EVE players won’t use them.

EDIT: Oh, and it’s a good idea not to turn away people providing activity for your forums. Someone posted something that’s been asked before? So what, it’s activity.


(Rivr Luzade) #15

But moderating those things is apparently something that drives people away[quote=“Xuixien, post:11, topic:7828”]
The competition is not really important if CCP stopped putting information out there and instead used and promoted their own forums and medias for this purpose. People could complain all they want over this but CCP has their own services to gather info on certain things in order to not waste time with having to sift through all the other sources of “information”.

You do realize that the Devs are quite active on the EVE subreddit, no?
[/quote]

Yes, I am aware of that, and I see it as a problem because, for instance, on this forum in Features and Ideas it is common knowledge that Devs read but not really participate in discussions. Yet, on reddit they don’t follow this guideline at all. No wonder that people ignore this forum in favor of other platforms where Devs don’t follow their own rules.

Yes and no because you can still find this person ingame, it is still a real character. The aliases on reddit, however, are in most cases but random accumulations of letters, unless a person deliberately uses their real character name or reveals their identity somewhere.

But this seems to be the kind of moderation that keeps people from using this forum. In Features and Ideas, for instance, a lot of people come up with their super-awesome, super-orignal idea on how to fight AFK camping (as an example) on a weekly basis and then either get worked up about being pointed to the existing stickied AFK camping ideas collection topic and their topic getting the closure-treatment, or abandon their idea altogether. Not showing willingness to do a minimum of research before posting should not be the one of the lowest common denominators for how heavy or lightly a forum gets moderated.


(Morrigan Laima) #16

in the case of duplication, it shouldn’t be any kind of sanction on the user, just fix it and redirect them to the right place.


(Morrigan Laima) #17

Maybe that boundary needs to be different depending on which area of the forum you are in, but, when someone posts an idea, and the only thing someone can offer in response is “you are a ■■■■■■■ stupid idiot”, that shouldn’t be tolerated, and they should be reminded to focus on the idea and not the person for their criticism.


(guigui lechat) #18

I definitely agree that people calling other names makes a toxic community. This prevent discussion.


(JC Mieyli) #19

unintuitive crap
worse than eve online ui
quitting eve posthaste