While I always enjoyed the hit and run game against bigger targets it only ever killed the more industrial targets that actually had PVP pilots. And at the same time devastated pure indy corps. I am not even going to mention white knight corps. I found killing them the most fun because it was always the wrong type of players to take on people like us. You need players like us… to kill us.
I think PIRAT is to organized/structured and can absorb the odd loss of ships and people as they get churned through the cycle. So hit and run is not going to work against PIRAT. If I was in PIRAT now and somebody caught me with a hit and run, I will just reship. I am an old player with way to much isk, I really don’t care.
Now others corps as mentioned above might not survive that type of hit and run so you are correct. I have seen small PVP corps buckle because one person will wait just as they engage others and attack. Like many here I loved doing that where it came to a point where they would not know if I’m there or not and not do anything when they saw a juicy kill.
I think mind games is what breaks corps and alliances more so than the loss of a ship.
I would appreciate that, I just tried but you were not around.
In terms of hit and run against PIRAT, I understand where you are coming from in terms of old players with way too much ISK. However you are talking about an entity that normally does not lose ships and this is a key factor in the fight as such. You can also play on the fear of attack especially going forward when neutral logi is not a thing in the main ambush points around hubs and in the pipes.
I have a strategy in mind to go after PIRAT, because I want to take away some of their assets which they got from botting , but mostly because it is a big challenge, they are smart, well organised and know how to play the game.
You also have to look at this in the context of when these changes come into effect, because at the same time hisec players are doing this I am hoping that a load of angry nullsec nerds are buzzing around their war HQ’s.
If this is what happens then we will see if PIRAT truly are as elite as they appear to be, however it will be fun and a hard challenge and that to me is the key part.
read the forums more, they do indeed make demands.
sorry incorrect, FIFA governs football/soccer they do not rule over any other sport or game.
again not correct, EVE/CCP are their own sport/game and CCP make the rules and yes they do indeed make changes to them rules and guess what, if they do take a players advice or idea, it tends to have come from a vet.
source please
yes because i do not see the game to be as broken as you do. i enjoy the game very much, yes it needs improvements, but it does not need to be watered down to attract gobshites that will demand it to be watered down even further because they are lazy shites and want everything handed to them on a silver plate.
facing the reality for almost 14 years now, the game has vastly improved, it’s never been more easy for a newer player to get to grips with things. yet some players just refuse to learn and adopt. that’s not the games fault, that’s the players fault.
bottom line here is, you believe sweeping game changes will attract and retain new players, when i believe it will not! it’s that simple.
All in all CCP hasn’t adressed the core of the wardec issue. They are a mean to negate gameplay to players who don’t have the means to negate gameplay to others, which leads to the eviction of those players. With the changes implemented, the pressure on those players will be higher than ever, and the fact that it hits them at an older age means nothing.
The only sensible way to win a war when you’re not for PvP is to quit EVE Online. And now there’s gonna be more pressure to evict non-PvP players as the targettable population has been shrinked through the structure threshold and the cost of evicting them has been reduced to a flat rate.
When those players quit, new players will find less corporations large enough to tutor them while being realtively safe from wardecs, and in turn will put a higher pressure on them as soon as they deploy a structure.
“Thank you for dropping that Raitaru, now we are free to kill all your ships for the peanuts sum of 100 million ISK. If you fight, you will lose -we wouldn’t bother you if you could put up a fight against us. If you don’t fight, we might extend the war for another week or two. If you quit EVE Online altogether, that will be wardecs working as intended”
Structure wardecs were the sane solution. CCP just did more of the same and bet on how killing more of the breeding adults will improve the population of prey now that younglings are safer…
Even before you could opt out of wars by staying in the NPC corp and play as much PvE as you wanted with literally no chance of interacting with the war mechanic. Now, you can eve do that PvE completely safe from wars in a corporation, never dealing with wars, or , if you choose to deploy a structure for some reason and catch a war, you can opt-out by taking down that structure (or letting it be destroyed).
“Quitting Eve” is not the only sensible solution - you’ve never had more ways to opt out of wars, or play the game free of them. Honestly, I am incredulous that people are still claiming that wars are an issue at all for people that don’t want to participate. I mean they weren’t before even if they ways to evade them were not always obvious, but now CCP is shouting them from the rooftop and telegraphing them loud and clear so every player who wants to avoid PvP knows how to. There is a clear line in the sand now and players who want to avoid wars can easily do so.
Wars are now fully and transparently opt-in only. I think we can finally stop the disingenuous pearl-clutching over how they are preventing the poor newbies from running their missions.
if the corp doesn’t own a structure then they are immune to war decs, not just realtively safe, they can’t be war decced.
yes, as it should be, if they do not feel they are ready or able then no structure for whatever corp it is.
or
delpoy it and if it’s attacked to hell with it.
from my own experience, I’ve deployed several stations over the years, lost a few of them, but by the time they had been hit they had paid for themselves at least 5 times over.
with some of them it was meh, not worth defending, with others we defended them, some where saved some where not, one can’t win every battle
but to just quit a game because you suddenly find yourself exposed to a part of the game that’s a little harder than facing NPC’s, that’s just weak game play and a lack of interest in growing beyond what a player is already, point blank refusal to learn and gain experience should not be rewarded.
I’ve seen it and heard it many times, aww no, war dec i’m just gonna log off for the week, them players never learn a thing and act surprised when they find themselves becoming a regualar target to those that didn’t log off at the first sign of a fight. so those who stay logged in and learn the game should be punished, while those that log off and not play should be in some way rewarded by over protecting them. a bit mad.
Wardecs are a small part of a much larger problem. EVE is nowhere near achieving this for new players:
With the wardec change, CCP indicates only that they are prepared to change the game in order to achieve a business objective. They haven’t demonstrated they any good at this yet.
For example: I don’t see many people here who distinguish between “reasons for rookies to stop playing EVE” and “triggers that precede leaving (“the last straw”)”. Your post demonstrates the same oversight.
I can imagine the old wardec system being a common trigger:
Perhaps the Corp was an attempt to avoid a range of negative (boring, unpleasant, etc) and time-consuming activities. Something like “EVE’s no fun solo, and while I can’t trust experienced players, perhaps a Corp with others in the same situation would make EVE fun for me”.
In such a case, the sequence “wardecced - leave forever” is rational, but it’s a trigger, not the whole cause.
I agree, we don’t have much data on the “triggers” that cause new players to leave the game. But the only data that CCP has released seemed to indicate if wars are a problem, they are way down the list of things that drive players away. I see no reason to assume just the existence of wars in a dystopian spaceship fighting game set in a war-torn universe is a problem.
That said, I’ve long be a strong and vocal idea of a social corp so all players, not just new ones, can play the game in a less competitive manner. The system CCP gave us isn’t my perfect conception of a social corp, but it is a workable version of one that allows players to be part of a group with no risk of a non-consensual war finding them.
I am willing to accept without any evidence that the old system did indeed put stress on new players, especially new player groups and I am glad CCP made more space for them. But they already did this. You can’t play the “Think of the Children” card again at least until we see the impact of the recent changes. Not only did CCP give new players a way to form a group without worrying about wars, they gave them a method to dip thier toes into the greater competition of the game by deploying a structure but one where they can revert to safety by taking it down (or losing it).
That problem has been solved, or at least there is a new fix in place that address the issue of the impact of wars on social groups. At a minimum we need to see how this plays out before we again go back to the ‘save the newbies’ well to ask for another series of game changes.
I agree that “think of the children” has to be suspended for wardecs pending new data
FWIW I know reasonably accurately what makes me play or not play EVE. Wardecs were definitely on the list last time, but probably only 5 to 10% of the whole. They got there because I was looking for a way to reduce tax, researched a little, and discovered in highSec wardecs yet another common form of griefing by rookie-haters.
I wouldn’t have shown up on any CCP stats though - finding and joining a corp (or making one) obviously wasn’t worth the “dead time” it would take, so I just moved on.
IIRC I think the last straw was realizing I was done with mining.
Players leave because of the insecureness in this game,something they get in other games with nautural ease,so they leave for this games because of TOO MUCH pvp not too less.
About time this simple fact enters your brain…
How i know this?
Well simply because PVP was prefered for 15 years in this game and even it was tried to nerf this a little bit the recent years this try was not even close to be far enough.
Try reading his posts with that in mind. You’ll notice that it’s all deliberate. That old saying about how one should not attribute malice to what is stupidity is backwards, because it stops people thinking about the possibility of someone deliberately appearing stupid to get away with what he wants to do.
i’m just gonna log off for the week, them players never learn a thing and act surprised when they find themselves becoming a regualar target to those that didn’t log off at the first sign of a fight. so those who stay logged in and learn the game should be punished, while those that log off and not play should be in some way rewarded by over protecting them. a bit mad.