Tier 3 Battleships idea (faction / pirate)

(Mina Sebiestar) #1

These ships are reverse engineered / stolen variants of empire tier 3 battleship class by local pirates to serve as cheaper versions of their own top of the line offerings.

Since ships are modified rather than built ground up they lack in some respect to originals but gain in others to be used according to pirate needs,e.g. tank is usually lacking but what is gained is weapon versatility.

Ideally slot layout remain the same for lore reasons retrofitted rather than built up.

Abaddon Heretic
(Per skill lvl)
5% to Large projectile ROF, 5% to Heavy,Cruise and Torpedo ROF 8 gun hardpoints 6 missile hardpoints
7.5% to Shield HP

Maelstrom Raider
(per skill lvl)
5% to Large Energy Turret DMG, 5% Heavy,Cruise and torpedo DMG 8 gun hardpoints 7 missile hardpoints
7.5% to armor HP

Hyperion Outlaw
(per skill lvl)
5% to Large Energy DMG, 10% to drone HP / DMG 5 gun hardpoints 8 missile hardpoints
7.5% to shield boost amount

Rokh Outcast
(per skill lvl)
10% to projectile Falloff, 10% to Heavy,Cruise and Torpedo velocity 8 gun hardpoints 8 missile hardpoints
7,5% to armor boost amount

This would be my take on tier 3’s let me know what you think

(Frostys Virpio) #2

You gave all 4 of them a tanking bonus but want their tank to be seen as lacking? Battleship with tanking bonus and the end result is a lower tank than a normal BS? If that’s isn’t a wasted bonus slot I don’t know what is.

Your outlaw is also a 3 weapon design which is even more â– â– â– â–  than any 2 weapon design.

(Mina Sebiestar) #3

Tank bonus is there to offset *unnatural slot layout and to avoid making them like tier 3 bc,s that is all.

Their strenght is versatility of weapon types all of them have turret / missile hardpoints and drones it doesn’t mean you should just fill them all …you can though.

Numbers are rough draft I didn’t put too much thought on balance.

(Cade Windstalker) #4

Split weapons like this are terrible and there’s a reason CCP has pretty systematically stripped them off of everything in the game. It forces you to either discard a bonus or split your damage mods to get an effect that other ships get with fewer slots spent.

The only ships that remotely gets away with this are the Guristas and that’s because they split between drones and missiles, they’re shield tanked with spare low slots, and the drones don’t take high slots which cuts down on the bad decisions available to the pilot.

There is no lore reason for slot layout to remain the same on a pirate battleship. The whole lore behind Pirate Battleships is that the various Pirate Factions can’t match the Navies for numbers so they have to go with a quality over quantity approach to their hulls, so they take existing designs or new R&D, specialize, and then try to squeeze every ounce of performance they can out of the hulls.

That’s why pirate hulls pretty consistently have one more slot than their T1 and Navy counterparts.

(Mina Sebiestar) #5

These ships can utilize multiple weapon systems take Maelstrom raider it can fit full rack of lazors or missiles it can fit full rack of rails or blasters autos or artys.

Weapons versatility is the theme not split weapons systems granted it allows you to be bad at eve by fitting 5 lazors and 3 missiles on it and complain how ship have split weapon systems but I am fine with it I ti i am bad at eve as well.

These are NOT pirate hulls they are retrofitted empire hulls in an effort to produce cheaper ships for more general use NOT top of the line pirate hulls thus why ship slot layout remain the same,I’m am not against adding more slots but I think weapons versatility (not split weapons) is good enough…one of these drops out of warp and you don’t knowing with what it gonna hit you with brings some excitement to the encounter don’t you think?

This hull variation of empire tier 3 hulls came from many other space games where pirates will often use other races ships outfitted for their own agenda it usually translate to ship being able to use other races weapon systems / tech and more of it with usually less tank or weapon energy or cargo space…just my take on idea of bringing that kind of variety to eve.

(Gadget Helmsdottir) #6

Just make a BS version of the Gnosis.
You’d have the same results with less work…
…that is, if versatility is your actual goal.


–Renaissance Gadget

(Mina Sebiestar) #7

I’l take two but I’l take more of missile firing Abaddons.

Variety I am just weird that way like when kronos and paladin had 90% webs instead of singular battleship that have them now.

(Saeger1737) #8

Why would the Abaddon go shield from it’s already strong armor set-up?

(Frostys Virpio) #9

Your Abaddon is more than likely a lesser missile boat than gun boat.

You can’t even propose something that align with what you want…

(Mina Sebiestar) #10

With capless weapons and that armor tank it just felt a tad strong thats all.

There is also armor Abbi already holding its place in game

(Mina Sebiestar) #11

I dont want it to be better raven or better tempest just to be able to use both…but again just an rough draft not all ship introduced should be EFT bigger number better than rest of the bunch.

(Saeger1737) #12

Take the abaddon the way of the bhaalgorns but with a missle weapons management

6 slots for missles
4%bonus armor hp per amarr battleship level
Bonus to nuet and nos

(Mina Sebiestar) #13

Not bad not in line with 2 bonus tier 3 battleship get but sure not within this idea it is also to similar to armagedon / bhaal in my mind.

Your idea sorta fit in straight upgrade path i.e navy tier 3

(Frostys Virpio) #14

It does not have to be better than a raven to at least be a better missile boat than gun boat. It’s only option to be better at missile as presented would be to have power grid so low you can’t fit guns but can fit rapid launchers…

(Cade Windstalker) #15

This doesn’t come across in the proposal and it’s not a great idea for a ship. The problem it creates is you end up with a very expensive hull that’s not actually good at anything and has to make weird fitting concessions or has way too much fitting space. This is because ships tend to have fitting space tailored to the guns they’re meant to fit. For example Caldari ships tend to have a lot of CPU because Missiles are pretty CPU heavy. Minmatar ships have a lot of PG because Projectiles are PG Heavy.

You’re also putting a ship under a racial skill that doesn’t use the skills normally associated with that race. There’s little point to having a Caldari Battleship use anything other than Hybrids or Missiles because that’s what a Caldari Battleship pilot will have trained. If you’ve trained Projectiles then 99% of the time it’s because you’ve also got Minmatar ship skills.

Then don’t call them Pirate hulls or associate them with the Pirate factions. That has some pretty clear associations in both Lore and Balance and will create expectations in the players looking at them.

As for the idea of “excitement” no, I don’t really think so, because 99% of the time it doesn’t matter. What someone has fitted affects what I shoot at them, but it doesn’t impact much about how I fly my ship against them, or anything I can’t find out with a quick “Look at” or just waiting for the first volley. If they have short range guns maybe I’ll pull range, long range and I’ll try to out-track them. Arties I can burn in more directly between volleys. In general though you’re not adding much to an encounter by creating a ship that can use a bunch of different guns. Like the Gnosis people will find one or two fits that make the best use of available slots and fitting space and those will be what you see 90+% of the time.

This doesn’t really fit with Eve’s lore or progression system though, and it’s not something Eve needs, nor does it lead to anything particularly interesting except for a selection of hulls that I don’t see anyone really using except maybe for bait with those hull HP bonuses. Overall their bonuses are weaker than a more specialized T1 counterpart and they don’t gain anything from the variety of weapon options.

(Mina Sebiestar) #16

I see what are you saying here and i must repeat my self that i just made an rough draft and barely made hard look at imbalances,il just type here my thought process that i went with.

8 Gun 5% rof maelstrom is fine dps wise it do more than Tempest fleet issue in raw gun dmg it does same DPS as Vargur and less than ANY other minmatar battleship including Typhoon that coincidentally have 6 missile hardpoints and 5% rof bonus to them

So Maelstrom and this Abaddon would sit in the middle of DPS curve among Battleship projectile users that is exactly where i want them.

8 Missile 5% ROF hard point Abaddon does Raven STATE issue DMG and 7 hardpoint Abaddon wouldn’t be to far behind this is not where i want it to be(as i imagined this class) 6 missile slots Abaddon on the other hand would out dps or there about 8 gun setup and contain 2 utility high to boot

I simply did not see that big of an issue you are saying it is not at home to fire up pifa to check but adjusting slots to give reduce guns / add missiles are easy stuff to do what i am more interested in, is this idea sound having ships that doesn’t have static fittings and weapon choices, is there a game play here.

(Mina Sebiestar) #17

Actually it is in the first post ships bonuses and amount of hard points.

This is imaginary issue really in game we have ships with plenthora of both like marauders take vargur for example it have so many pg it can fit artys whatever tank you want and plenty of it and still fit TWO megatrons in high slots and STILL have spare PG and CPU left.And marauders are pretty power creep ships i don’t see a reason why theses lesser ship should be fitting bounded.

They dont power creep tank nor dps they just provide options to highly skilled players imo.

I see zero issues here have 150mil SP that i want to utilize why not be skilled enough i dont expect 5mil caldari pilot anywhere near thise ships.

These ships borrow other races bonuses and merge them in a single hull they just dont go full power creep by doing so i see no lore issues here.

Yes not all humans are emotionally unchallenged or leet in eve it is exciting same way using strat cruisers or in general coming up with fitting ideas for your ship it provide additional content and certain amount of uncertainty especially if you are new to the ship.

Thanks for your opinion.

(Buoytender Bob) #18

I would be far more interested in providing a Marauder for the one weapon system not yet represented in EVE: drones. We have Marauders based on missles,lasers,projectile, and rail/blaster. Let us have a drone “mini-carrier” usable in high sec that bonuses drones and bonuses all races equally,since almost all ships of all 4 factions use drones in some aspect. This better fits into the already existing ship trees, doesn’t need a huge reworking of game balance, and finally brings the last weapon family into parity with the other weapon systems. Just take a Marauder, add equivalent weapon bonuses to its primary weapon system (drones), and you are set.

(Mina Sebiestar) #19

Request old as marauders them self have no issues with that would like to see it happens.

(Cade Windstalker) #20

The Typhoon also lost its projectile bonuses and the last word from CCP on the fleet issue (albeit years ago) was that they were looking at making the bonuses on that one uniform as well depending on how people liked the new T1 Typhoon.

You specify a gun type on each of the ships. At no point do you indicate that each ship can use all Large turrets and Launchers.

It’s not an imaginary issue. The ships that have plenty of fitting space tend to also have other drawbacks or things that necessitate using that fitting space. For example the Marauders tend to be lower on raw HP than their Pirate or Navy counterparts which limits what they can do with that extra fitting space that they gain from having fewer guns. Also while they tend to be pretty light on fitting space they have lower base fittings than a comparable ship that’s expected to fit a full rack of 8 guns.

If you look at the swing in PG between a full rack of 1400mm Arties and a full rack of 425mm Railguns you’ll see that it’s a pretty significant difference. The same goes for the CPU requirements on Cruise Missiles or Rails vs on 1400 Arties.

Marauders are not at all powercreep in any way. They’re good solo, if very expensive, but there’s a reason you don’t see them showing up at all in fleet doctrines. They don’t have the base stats to make good fleet ships and the few advantages they bring to the table are done better for fewer tradeoffs by other hulls. Generally Pirate Battleships but even some T1 hulls do better in a fleet role than a Marauder.

Just because you don’t see this as an issue doesn’t mean it’s not an issue. CCP doesn’t put ships in weird places where you have to cross-train massively to make use of them. The closest they get is the current Pirate Battleships which may require a racial ship skill but use the entire other race’s weapons, but even then there’s some basic relation and there’s generally an option for the race and weapons you’ve already trained.

They function completely differently from existing Pirate hulls and you’ve flat out stated that you’re abandoning the current function and premise behind the Pirate Battleships for them. They’re not Pirate Battleships they’re weirdly out of place T1 hulls.

It’s not interesting uncertainty though. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got missiles or turrets fitted 99% of the time because it’s extremely rare for a fit someone is taking out to PvP in, especially solo, to have a massive weakness like that.

Without risk there’s no tension or excitement at the unknown and these provide none of that for the same reason that fighting a Gnosis doesn’t.