The usual reason for that is them not having access to better options. In EVE’s case, they literally already ahve better options. The pirates aren’t a rag-tag of poor sobs making do with what they can find, they are conglomerate with massive financing developing better hardware than the 4 empires does. There is no need for them to get a duct tape ass-backward retrofit design of an already existing ship if it does not give them a better ship in the end. The Serpentis would continue building Vindicators instead of whatever bad amalgamation of retrofit you randomly assign to them since it not even going to follow their pirate trait.
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I get that my intent was to find an opening lore wise to fit my idea in not to rewrite pirate holly grail life ideology.
4 empires that go and whoop pirates to behave when they stir shiet by excess whoring drug trafficking and slavery have more real and grounding approach to their forces.
For morons a school ship
Cadets get a beginner ship
You don’t send marauder to clean graffiti of a billboard in back end minmatar system.
Lore wise to me that make sence.
But ■■■■ lore these ships are content providers or they are boring uninterested ships.
Clearly my opinion on the matter should be easy to guess.
[quote=“Mina_Sebiestar, post:34, topic:11790”]
It really isnt great by any metric ship you compare it with have more dps and more alpha the only redeeming point of artillery weapon only thing achieved with rof bonus is you actually consume more ammo than you can fit in a ship providing less overall dps and no alpha compared to Tempest Fleet or maelstrom.
7.5% missile rof on a 6 hardpoints provide sick dps boost 7.5% ac ship is mediocre in that same scenario…correction it is the worst thing you can do to a ship.[/quote]
That’s not a problem with the bonus though. 7.5% pre level to ROF is an objectively good bonus, the problem is that it’s being applied to six guns and it’s the only bonus being applied. Hence the whole problem with the bonuses being un-unified…
I’d love to see a link to that. Personally I’m skeptical, and even if it did happen that’s on the extreme niche end of things.
The reason I misunderstood is because of a failure in communication on your end. I get that english isn’t your first language here but it would be nice if you’d try to work out possible confusion stemming from that instead of jumping to conclusions and running with them.
That’s certainly part of it but it’s also in combination with considerations about the fitting space. They could have also solved the fitting space issue by giving them ‘normal’ base HP and tighter fitting space so they couldn’t easily fit additional buffer.
Also if you look at the fitting space on Marauders the base fitting space is pretty low, and the CPU is lower than even a comparable T1 hull. The reason they tend to end up with more fitting space is fitting fewer guns, but it’s not the ridiculous amounts you keep implying it is, it just looks that way because the percentages end up high unless you spend it on Heavy NOS or Neuts in the highs or a brick buffer tank.
There are plenty of reasons the Marauders aren’t OP from having generous fittings, but that doesn’t mean that any ship having generous fittings is fine or that these ships having generous fittings is fine. You’re pointing at an unrelated fact and drawing erroneous conclusions.
But you seem to want that across all of these ships, and all of them need to be able to run both Missiles and a gun system, which means they’re all going to have pretty generous CPU amounts.
Alternatively are you going back on the whole these things should be able to fit any weapon regardless of bonuses line? That’s where this whole thing stemmed from, the idea that you wanted all four of these to be able to fit a full rack of Projectiles, Hybrids, or Lasers comfortably.
No… between the Abaddon and the Maelstrom the Mael has the same PG and 80 more CPU. It’s also fitting Projectiles which take less CPU than Lasers do, by quite a bit.
If you’re talking about just taking the same fitting stats off the base ships that’s not going to work because the weapons each hull was originally designed for are different. An Abaddon hull fitting Projectiles is going to have not enough PG, too much CPU, and way too much capacitor just for a start.
It’s not, when the stripped the gun bonuses off it they added an extra turret and launcher and gave it more CPU. The PG got left alone because it’s now primarily a missile boat so it doesn’t need nearly as much PG. The turret slots stayed mostly because CCP didn’t see a particular reason to remove them, not because it’s in any way intended to use turrets as a primary weapon.
Which is something CCP is never going to do. Ships are always bound by their available fitting space because that creates choices the player has to make with what they’re going to do with that fitting space. Your idea that there are ships in the game that aren’t already fitting bound is ridiculous. There are hulls that have looser fitting restrictions, but all of them still have fits that run into fitting issues somewhere.
Again, you’re overly focusing on the T3D example here. The point is that all ships not just the T3Ds have fitting based restrictions and balance. Whether it’s HACs, Pirate hulls, or the T1 Battleships fitting space has been mentioned by CCP in every ship rebalance since tiericide started.
You don’t seem to be understanding why this is bad design and why CCP aren’t going to go for it…
You’re adding nothing of value by putting an off-skill ship into the wrong tree that wouldn’t be better served by putting it in a tree with ships that require similar skills.
Not going to derail this thread, but a final post to reflect where your logic fails. Without Bastion, the player is forced to rely on the drones AI to pick targets and we all know how faulty and error-prone the drone AI is at the moment. It would be like if your Golem was forced to use only auto targeted missiles or your Vargur/Kronos was allowed to pick and choose which targets it was going to prioritize despite your wishes to the contrary. Wrongly prioritized dps does little to help the player, especially if targets are chosen that a weapon system has problems hitting; i.e., rails/arty on close orbiting frigs,etc. In addition (and as you have stated previously), the Marauder is best used by the solo or small group player (like me) who doesn’t choose to be in a large fleet; your protest that it doesn’t fit into current fleet doctrine really doesn’t matter, there are plenty of us who run solo or paired in EVE. While the Rattlesnake can pump out damage well ( mine sure do), they just suck when it comes to full clear/salvage in missions and they pump out the damage only because they combine missiles with drones. Please show me your solo drone only ECM-proof Domi fit that pumps out 1400+dps and can run missions, I’ll wait.
It is just illogical that a faction that uses drones as its primary stated weapon system doesn’t have a Marauder that is purpose built to support it. By your stated argument, a Kronos isn’t needed because a Vindi can do the same damage. Ditto a Golem (RNI) or Paladin…in fact any Marauder.You and your group may not have use for it, but there are plenty of us solo/small group players that do. Sure I can get into carriers, but that is a low/nullsec thing and unless I join a larger group, I’m SOL. I’m tired of larger groups gaming/exploiting or over influencing EVE’s mechanics/system such that other players get short changed in value for the money they spend (unfortunately, another whole other problem).
I’ve said my piece; I doubt I’ll influence you, but you’re wrong. Just because an idea doesn’t fit into the niche you (and/or your group) has settled into, doesn’t invalidate its logic/value. Occasionally an EVE player steps out of his own little bubble and sees the needs of other players, I’m sorry that you cannot.
I am not properly equipped for this circle jerking with you being on the phone, since you did not say anything new il pick thru and respond te select few things.
I will try to get to the pilot in cHan that brag about it to repost km link.
they already do have pretty generous cpu nothing changes only ship that can run into cpu fitting issue is Abaddon.
What I quoted here and responded to is you stating that maelstrom is fitting less cpu bound guns but higher pwg guns on it fact is lazors are guns that require most pg not artys,since both ships have same pg with one running onto pg problems while fitting less pg intense guns and other runs in cpu trouble,conclusion is guns are not what drive that pg deficit rest of the fit is and is safe to say ships are tight on fitting as is.
What else …typhoon fleet is both gun and missile ship and require pwg rigs to fit nothing but guns.
Wow this took me forever.hate my phone right now il respond if anything new comes out of you otherwise I wont.
But that only works for the weapons that are normally mounted on that ship. The amount of CPU taken by different types of weapons varies wildly so a ship that does fine with Arty will find itself crunched for CPU with Lasers and crushed by Rails.
Similarly a shield tanked ship will tend to be more CPU heavy than an Armor tanked one while the Armor ship will be more PG heavy.
Seriously you’re hand-waving so much here I’m beginning to think you don’t know much about ship fittings or module balance.
My mistake on the lasers, I was comparing the 1400s to the Mega Beam Lasers instead of the Tachyons and the Abaddon often has to downsize its guns to make a buffer heavy fit work, which it can do with less issues because of the nature of Lasers and how they step down where as the step from 1400s to 1200s is generally considered more severe.
There’s also slot layout to take into account. The Abaddon is armor tanked and can more easily eat the Low Slot fitting mod needed to get a full rack of Tachyons to work than the Maelstrom can the 1400s.
You didn’t say Typhoon Fleet you said Typhoon. Those are different ships and have different fittings… also the Fleet 'Phoon has slightly more Powergrid and CPU than the normal Typhoon.
You’re only not seeing this as “anything new” because you’re blurring complex ship balance questions into “it doesn’t matter” and “it’s fine”.
I’d respond via PM but this forum doesn’t seem to have that option…
[quote=“Buoytender_Bob, post:44, topic:11790”]Without Bastion, the player is forced to rely on the drones AI to pick targets and we all know how faulty and error-prone the drone AI is at the moment.
[/quote]
My comment took that into account. The poor drone target selection is still better than no target selection at all, and even then you don’t have to deal with it indefinitely these days like you used to. Generally the entire pocket gets in one round of EWar and then it’s sporadic at best.
Plus a drone boat is already immune to the effects of tracking disruption and webbing, doesn’t care about targeting painting, and for the most part barely has to worry about sensor dampening as well.
Also not really a problem drone boats have. Absolute worst case is sentries after a close frigate, but at that point you can just pull them in and either drop them back out again or drop Heavies which will chew through Frigates quite easily 99% of the time, something most other weapons with that kind of DPS can’t claim.
Dominix Navy Issue but it meets your requirements: 32307:19038;1:11644;2:10190;1:4405;3:12068;1:1952;1:41218;2:24438;2:3186;6:26374;2:25956;1:28211;5:2456;5:2446;5:28999;2:12791;480:29001;1:232;1:236;1:238;1::
I think you may have missed the thrust of my argument here. It’s not so much that we already have drone boats that can do PvE well, it’s that the drone ship doesn’t gain much or change how it plays at all from having access to Bastion.
To take the Kronos as an example, because it’s very close to a Vindi and yet they play completely differently. The Kronos focuses on projection, application, and tank where the Vindi focuses purely on raw damage and short range application. Especially with Bastion the Kronos plays completely differently from a Vindi. It goes from one that focuses heavily on mobility and short range damage to one that’s quite immobile and focuses on tank and projection.
The Dominix and Rattlesnake already play in the same way as a Bastion fit Marauder and drones in general wouldn’t gain or change much from being on a Bastion fitted ship.
I’m not the one you have to convince. Whether I agree with you or not doesn’t matter, your argument needs to be convincing to CCP. This also has nothing to do with my personal play-style. This is a game design focused perspective on ship and module balance. I’m basing most of this off of what was said by CCP in the original Marauders thread where this was brought up several times. I recommend going and giving at least the dev posts a read-through.
Instead of looking to add a pirate faction ship dependant on the pirates why not use some sect, tribe, corporation, or party within the 4 empires to influence the layout and damage output of the tier 3 ships?
Like a Corp, sect, tribe or party that has done little to nothing within the game, focus on them and the lore will match and everything will be ok
And yet they sit in Nullsec Anoms being farmed like complete and utter idiots, incapable of any learning process, technological or tactical development and really anything that makes you feel they are powerful. They exactly feel like rag-tag of poor sobs, just that they don’t even do with what they can find, they don’t do at all.
That’s how they stay relevant. Send in your mooks to get culled by the space-gods, and if any survive, then they’re worth training for top tier stuff.
–Gadget - doing her part to make pirates stronger
That’s partly a reflection of just how kick*** capsuleers are in-lore and partly a necessity of gameplay and game mechanics. After all it’s not really feasible or fun if all the NPCs can kick the player’s teeth in.
Why is Common Sense Gadget signing her posts as “Renaissance Gadget”? 
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Don’t know about that, it could be fun though. Would give players a good reason to move around in fleets all the time, rat in fleets and actually improve at their group play. It’s probably more interesting than just forming whenever some timer dictates it and otherwise just make sure they stay within profits between danger of being catched afk-ratting vs. ratting ticks.
But yeah, of course this should escalate from Highsec to Nullsec. It’s a serious flaw that in Null pirate factions don’t make use of the Sups and Tits they developed to drop them on player groups.
I,too, tried private and this forum should have this feature. Perhaps someone knows how and could let us know?
Er, what in the heck is this?^^^^ Is this the ecm-proof 1400dps+ Domi you suggested? I cannot seem to make sense of it or what you are saying., let alone fabricate a Domi fit comparable to a Marauder using pyfa and perfect skills. Please repost your Navy Domi fit that meets the requirements as posted again. It would be most appreciated…By the way, my Blaster Kronos plays just like my Vindi; blasters and overwhelming firepower at relatively short (<50km) range. If you are using rails, most people would consider you in doctrinal error.
Thanks for your extra effort in solving this Marauder-equal Domi question; PYFA keeps telling me that it’s impossible.
As an optional thing, sure. If you had to do that to deal with any pirates or even most pirates it’d just be a pain in the behind though. That’s why as WoW and similar games have moved to more and more group-dungeon focused content they’ve also implemented features to make finding a group for that content as absolutely seamless and painless as possible.
As for Eve, it absolutely works as an option. Case and point, Incursions. Ask anyone whose been in the Incursion community for a while and they’ll tell you that the people are half the reason they’re still around.
Lore-wise those are a fairly new thing, and they probably will show up in NPC content at some point, just like the Dreads already do.
No so much with the dropping though. Eve isn’t a game where the NPCs should be taking the initiative unless it’s spawned by a player action like with Wormhole Drifters.
That Domi fit is close enough to ECM immune that you’ll spend an absolutely negligible amount of time jammed. Ditto for sensor damps thanks to the range increase from the Sebo.
As for Kronos vs Vindi, the Vindi tickles at 50km with Blasters even with Null loaded while the Kronos hasn’t even hit 50% falloff yet.
My point is and always has been that the gameplay of a drone boat does not change substantially between having Bastion and not while that of other ships does. I again refer you to the original Marauder rework thread on the old forums.
Same difference really just need more thinkering pirates were easiest targets they as a whole dabble in all kind of weaponry and tech of all races,they dont need to be loyal to weapon type and ships i proposed already contain at least one racial weapon type but swing in untested waters with second type.
Quite frankly proposing singular weapon type or laser variation of Abaddon sounded dull as watching paint dry is.
I would just be happy with a covert ops BS… but thats just me.
I think especially in Nullsec the general and average NPC behaviour should be much smarter and stronger. Currently there is often the argument of “you could come and catch them afk ratting”, but I don’t think NPC mechanics and their risk vs. reward implications should be tailored around the possibility of other players interfering. Making huge amounts of ISKs should at the very least require active and responsive gameplay. Smarter and more unpredictable NPCs would help with that and might be a good option to get a hold of the stupid ISK faucet situation.
For Lowsec we already have some mechanics which make activities in belts and mining anoms a bit more dangerous: Mordus spawns and Clone Soldiers. Maybe NPCs in Anoms might need a buff in their behaviour, but that should probably be developed alongside a look on the reward structure.
I have no idea about Highsec, but I guess due to the low ticks and faction police being constantly present, I don’t think NPCs need to be much stronger than they are now.
Going with that, agreed. If players do attack NPCs in a system or take Sov where you find a pirate faction all over the place, I would pretty much call that players taking action. Right now Null is mostly farmville and that doesn’t fit the lore nor does it any good for the game balance. I need to repeat: for high rewards like in Null Anoms, there should be high risk - by mechanic. Right now anyone can just create new character and AFK-farm Anoms for a couple of weeks before buying themselves a Super. Even if they lose a couple of Bil through being catched by Hunters, it’s still just a numbers game, which they always AFK-win. Ratting in Nullsec should of course be rewarding, but it needs to come with being present, adapting and working for the monies.
Based on CCP’s previous comments from the last year or so that’s pretty much the direction they’re headed, at least with higher end Null PvE content. They’ve explicitly said they’re not happy with the solo state of end-game Null PvE.
That said, you can only get so ‘unpredictable’ with NPC behavior and still have a balanced encounter. NPCs will always be fundamentally predictable because the outcome of the content needs to be predictable within certain bounds.
And I agree, to a point. The thing to remember is that there’s only so much risk you can put into PvE content before you break it. The content needs to be consistently profitable or no one will touch it. Low Sec exploration has the potential for ridiculous profits, but because it’s so inconsistent in its outcomes very few people actually engage in the activity.