To end The War

(Mizhara Del'thul) #266

A pity the enemy won’t cease to exist just because you’d rather pretend they’re not there. This right here is why they steadfastly refuse to relent. Why our people remain chained. They look towards their enemy and see you and others, so willing to live on their knees rather than die on their feet.

Once the matter has been resolved. That you are bored with it, does not make the problems go away, nor the countless lives at stake.

(Teinyhr) #267

That is pretty rich coming from someone who has turned their back on our people in favour of whoring themselves out for the highest bidder in null. I’ve explained it to you who knows how many times that there are ways to act that aren’t immediately visible, and there are so many things one can do without spilling blood. I have never said or shown that I am not willing to spill blood, but it has to be for the right reasons at the right time.
But you know what, you keep being a self-righteous bitch, see how far that gets you and how much that helps those who you claim to care so much about.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #268

No, you’re right. We’d be so much more useful sitting in highsec cleaning out Angel infestations or feeding the capsuleer war machine. I’m sure that will prepare for the wars to come, blunting and dulling any edge there might have been.

Step out of the kiddie pool and maybe you’ll come to learn there’s so much more that needs to be known to the very bone if there’s to be even the slightest chance of victory when real conflict arise.

… or you know, stay, refuse to learn how to swim and then drown when the flood comes. That’ll help.

(Teinyhr) #269

You know what I’m also tired of? You misdirection tactics. You know just as well how under CONCORDs boots we are, and if you think they will let us take our capfleets against the empires, ever, you’re stupider than I ever pegged you to be. I’m assuming that is what you meant with knowing things to the bone, since that is the only actual meaningful difference between high and null warfare. You can learn subcap and anti-capital tactics anywhere. Learning to lock and shoot on command isn’t exactly hard.

You’re a joke, Mizhara, and not even a good one. Just shut up.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #270

If the war breaks out, CONCORD will disintegrate. It has already been breached once, when a nation decided military action was needed and capital ships went into the fire. More importantly, you think a real war would be limited to highsec? The nations extend far beyond the kiddie pool.

Effective use of Micro Jump Field Generators, Burst Projectors, Capital vessels, Black Ops/Recon/CovOps, large scale fleets even without any of the above, logistics operations and coordination, large scale deployment, infrastructure management and coordination, the adept use of wormhole mapping, routes and logistics, combined arms fleets, and more are all things you pretty much never see in highsec. These are also all things that would be part of an all out war.

Innovation and the cutting edge of strategy and tactics have never been the forte of highsec. Capsuleers waging war will almost certainly be a significant force to be reckoned with once hostilities become formal, and do you think you and yours could stand up to for instance CVA, who have had over a decade learning how to effectively fight other capsuleers?

You think capital ships are the only meaningful difference between the kiddie pool and the vastness of New Eden? You have seen nothing. Spirits below, may they protect you from ever having to see a war being waged. It’s quite clearly beyond what your limited imagination can handle.

Without the experienced large scale fleet commanders of null, the courageous and dangerous explorers of wormhole space and the skilled prowlers and hunters of lowsec, I can assure you any war would be lost against those who do have them.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #271

To me, fighting is a lot like making sweet love to a woman: It’s best done without talking to focus on the task at hand.

(Arrendis) #272

Heh. Just the idea of watching them try to deal with a single Snatchfleet makes me giggle. It might be worth organizing a ‘take your kids to null’ day at some point…

(Mizhara Del'thul) #273

If highsec ever lost CONCORD protection and limitations, there’d be a very rude awakening indeed. If war breaks out… that’s exactly what will eventually happen.

(Halcyon Ember) #274

That sounds like it works better solo.

(Teinyhr) #275

If you’re lucky. Even “that one one time” capsuleer restrictions weren’t lifted, so good luck in hoping it will ever happen.

Because most of what you mentioned are banned or of extremely limited use in empire space? Again, all of this is assuming your “all out war” ever happens where we are allowed to play any bigger part than in the pendulum one.

Neither is it nulls. How many months or years did it take for you to adapt to “pipebombing” again?

1.) Still pure speculation on how this war would be waged. 2.) Would you and yours side with CVA if they paid you enough? 3.) I’m not exactly a stranger to combat myself, and “kiddie poolers” are probably better adapted to being hunted than you think.

I have seen your wars - fought over bloody nothing - and I’m not particularly impressed. Only warmongers and former (maybe you still are?) terrorists like yourself revel in such crap.

In this hypothetical conflict of yours you might have an upper hand at first, but people learn and adapt.

Rude awakening for sure. Whatever happens after that, who knows. Again you seem pretty sure you know what will happen, but even you can’t predict the future.

You should at least find out what they like, which still requires communication.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #276

It’s my ISK, so they’ll put the lotion on their skin.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #277

Almost all of them have purposes in a war, even in highsec. Are you so bad at this that you don’t even know what you can do in highsec? Also, the empires are significantly larger than highsec. You may not have heard of this, but there’s something called ‘lowsec’ where most of the capsuleer toys are very effective.

If “pipebombing” is your measure of nullsec strategy and tactics, you haven’t been paying attention for well over half a decade. Just within the last month I can point to the rise and fall of several new strategies and tactics, effective and then countered, and then reworked and further adapted. And that’s just within the tiny little area we’ve been deployed in this month. Null, low and WH space is exactly where strategy and tactics evolve and develop continuously and perpetually. If you’re so out of date that ‘pipebombing’ is your example, entities like Init would eat your entire region alive.

  1. Want to bet that in an outright war, they wouldn’t use the weapons at their disposal? That’s a nasty bet to take, at some unbelievable stakes. “No no, we don’t have to prepare for that eventuality. Oh no, it happened, wat do?”
  2. Where MC would fall does indeed depend on the bidder and political situation. Where I would go, is another thing entirely.
  3. I’ve seen your combat record. You have seen pretty much nothing. If you think “being hunted” is even remotely relevant in a war, you are sadly mistaken.

Since you make completely ridiculous claims, it shows you clearly have never seen those wars. As for the latter, oh yes. I make no excuses for it. I do revel in war. I revel in fighting my enemies. That is why I will be prepared once the horn is sounded and our kind is needed. Until then, would you prefer I wage my craft in your kiddie pool?

When the stakes are nations, by the time ‘adaptation’ happens, the war is won or lost. Our people can’t just clone, drop corp and rebuild. We need to fight to win from the word go, if war comes. Once our people are lost, it’s over.

(Aria Jenneth) #278

On the whole, Miz, I kind of doubt anyone’s going to want random elements (arguably “mad dogs”) like us running loose in really uncontrolled circumstances. It’s more likely that either the technology CONCORD has for keeping us in check will proliferate and render us pretty near useless or that someone’s going to throw a switch when / if CONCORD falls, and we’ll all be locked out.

What happens then is a little hard to predict, but I’ll be surprised if they just let us do as we please.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #279

“We can’t have the capsuleers in the war, it’ll be uncontrolled!”
"… yeah, what if they use capsuleers against us?"

Once survival is at stake, risks will be taken.

(Aria Jenneth) #280

If the restraints and safegards are removed, Miz, the empires risk, in a very immediate way, being eaten by their mercenaries.

And what mercenaries. Tell me you can’t see anyone bombing Pator into glass for a laugh?

(Mizhara Del'thul) #281

The fact remains, when conflict is upon us, desperation will set in from one side or another. They will unleash what they have to in order to survive. The other side also knows this, and will need their own counter-measure.

When war comes along… no. There won’t be restrictions. The Amarr have glassed planets without capsuleers getting involved. We are destructive and dangerous, but the Empires have been vastly worse over the years. We’ll be another weapon and they will use us.

They can’t afford not to.

(Aria Jenneth) #282

Some weapons you don’t use unless you can be sure they won’t come back the other way, Miz.

… And you’re assuming anyone will be able to give us that freedom you crave. It’s more likely that there are failsafes in play that will put us out of commission for good, one way or another. The rules that govern us are strange, but, I’m not quite ready to assume they’re totally crazy just yet.

Unless maybe someone’s expecting us to wipe our home empires out and establish a new civilization of our own. The SoCT has occasionally talked about us as though we were children or apprentices of a kind, so, that’s maybe possible. It seems like the results of that would be nothing short of a singularity, though: a patch of history it’s impossible to predict anything past.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #283

The only control mechanisms they have over us is dependent on CONCORD. CONCORD is made up of all four of the Nations, and if you think they don’t have their own fallback and safety plans for the potential moment CONCORD falls apart or one side betrays the other - especially after the Elder Fleet - you have a great deal more faith in them than I do.

For all your talk of human nature, you seem quite convinced they’d discard a weapon that could mean the difference between survival and complete extinction.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #284

Why do people always get so eschatological about war?

(Teinyhr) #285

MIcro Jump Field Generation: Banned in High-Sec. Burst Projectors: Banned in Empire Space, Offensive Capitals: Banned in High-sec.

We already have Pendulum Wars where you can already play with your toys, so I assumed this was not part of the discussion by default, but this all out war you’re salivating for, where the conflict would escalate in to traditionally highly controlled space. But do splerg on, if it makes you feel better.

You would want Molden Heath to be destroyed? You truly are a patriot.

  1. Still pure speculation until it actually happens. I’d make a bet as long as I can afford it, but it is a bet I hope never needs to be cashed in.
  2. Nice dodge of the question.
  3. I’ve seen enough. Also, your smug bitch is showing.

Because I don’t ejaculate rainbows on how amazing it is to shoot at a target when FC tells me to, I know nothing? Ok.That is betting on that the horn is ever sounded. I don’t frankly give a ■■■■ what you do, go die in whatever pointless endeavour you wish. I only keep responding because you do.

Our people? You are the one who has anti-government terrorist organizations on their record and have turned your back on the Republic and its people. If you ask me, you don’t even deserve to talk about “our people.”