Trig Ship Nerf

So I just saw this trig ship nerf. Horrible idea I think.

An Ikitursa with occult and 3 sinks now takes 24-30 seconds to get to 500 dps and one minute to 750 which other HACs half the price can dish out right off the bat. With mystic, the dps is just absurd.

In the patch it states that the trig ships will now be worse at killing tackled. No, they will be worse at killing anything, not just tackle.

I think you should probably make it do less DPS vs structures, as this is what they are being used for a lot apparently. Keep the ship to ship DPS the same and just nerf the structure basher role. What you did is actually encourage the ships are now used for structure bashing even more as they will be at a severe dps advantage pvp? Or just rename the Trig ships Structure Bashers Race? Logically, its basically the only thing they are going to be good for, high sec structure bashing. Thats it.

I hope you will adjust prices for Trig ships and guns by 50% of their current build costs to compensate for their new found uselessness. Before, it was hard enough to spool on a target and to do enough DPS but now its going to be much worse. The trig guns just turn off if target goes out of max range and you lose all the previous progress on the ramp, of your now nerfed dps.

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The package as a whole was, and still in, extremely powerful with the utility high slots and the insane role bonuses. They could go two ways :

  • remove its special stuff and make it more “normal”
  • actually lean into the special stuff and make it less applicable to generic “normal” situations

Personally I kinda like how they didn’t do a copy/paste thing and instead made it more niche, we don’t need more of the same. I can also understand that people who use those ships for more conventional stuff aren’t happy with that.

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Oh nooo, guys, why my 1,750 DPS cruizer now do 1,900 DPS? Why CCP is nerf me like this? I no sub my 19 accounts now, tanks a lott a-holes!

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My understanding of the change for Trig ships is they reduced the starting DPS, but made it quicker to get to a higher total DPS. Which of course, as you say, will be great for structure bashers like the Leshak. Generally, though, I’ve used a Nightmare for structure bashing a lot more than I’ve used a Leshak. That’s in highsec…in low and null I’ve mainly used a moderate DPS Eagle for bashing and requests of ’ can I bring my Leshak ?’ generally get declined.

Triglavian weapons are being adjusted to have slightly lower base damage, but they will retain the same damage at max spool as they have now by increasing the maximum ramp multiplier. The Mimesis implant set and Nergal/Ikitursa will end up having a small damage increase at max spool. We are also increasing the damage multiplier per cycle so it will still take around 30 cycles of the weapon to reach max ramp.

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When ccp does the skill que changes, i wonder if they’ll allow a free skill remap every so often. Just so people don’t feel like that have a bunch of wasted sp.

i was in after years. Now i´m out again. Running abyssals in an Iki was disappointing before patch. Now im leaving this beautyfull ship again in hangars. Fly Safe guys

These ships never really got to max spool unless structure bashing and some pvp circumstances. I mostly used the Ikitursa, Draugur, Nergal for the abyss, where you never ever reached max spool. This nerf limits even more the ship coices for the abyss and it makes T5 firestorm basically impossible and T4 iffy. Ever before the nerf dps was an issue as it required good range, ammo and target management.

In PVP the spooling can be countered in many ways, including range management and jamming, which basically nukes your dps instantly. Now the dps nerf made it even worse.

To me the point of a nerf is to counter immensely overpowered properties that lead to an instant and total advantage. The triglavian guns were far from this. the starting dps reduction doesn’t really accomplish its goal, because you still end up with the massive dps, now its just starts out slower but takes just as long to get there. So no gain really for pvp fights longer than a minute.

My choice for a nerf would have been an inverse rate of increase in dps, as in, the higher it gets the slower it increases, requiring a longer time to increase. So you get diminishing returns as the dps goes over lets say 700 then your ramping per cycle starts to decrease, taking twice as long to get to 1400. Instead of having a constant increase, diminishing increase would both keep the viability of the ships and make them have to keep the field longer to let the guns ramp. So then you would have a good balance between starting dps and full dps in time. I hope CCP does this instead.

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-20 is not slightly lower, its HUGE, immense dps nerf. You take or add 20% to anything in eve it will make them from useful to useless or viceversa. 5% is slight, not 20%. I think it was a very poor attempt at balance.

I think a diminishing rate of increase past certain thresholds would have been have been a choice. I think we will see trig ships becoming irrelevant for anything except highly controlled fights and structure bashing. This will be reflected in massive market price drops and relevant materials, all of which have started i think. I would not train for trig guns now.

For pvp why would i want to start a fight with 70% less dps than a ship 30% of the price and try to do something in a ship that most others can do better?

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Considering the bonus of the platform, I say this was long due.
Now even a damp/TD is useful against them (because they force you to change your ammo)

That’s against their goal.
They wanted to nerf those ships. They could have simply lowered the whole DPS by 20%.

Actually I think they SHOULD have lowered the DPS by 20%, then implemented the present state.

These nerfs push the trig ships even deeper into their niche: structure bashing. Now they can all behave like that silly mimesis implant set. CCP could have reduced the slope of the dps evolution. Instead they chose to reduce the “alpha” on a single weapon ship (!!!), and increased the slope of the dps progression. Creating a “wait, my zipper is undone” moment for trig ships, was that really necessary ?! It will only lead to cries of “the other ships have too high alpha, (most) trig ships are useless in pvp”.

Also make the Rifter great again :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes

They should’ve done the reverse: boost DPS by +20-25% and dropped the max DPS for full spool-up.

I dont really know what they are trying to accomplish with this change, it doesn’t really reinforce the role of a spooling ship. They should have slowed the ramping past like 800-900 dps, increase the max dps and have it take longer to reach that huge dps. That would have solidified the ramping role. In most PVP fights, the first 1-2 minutes are critical and this is where the trig ships got neutered, not their ramping.

Set up something like this, for example. With Ikitursa, 3 sinks and Veles + occult.

  • 450-800 dps increase at 7% per cycle
  • 800-1200 dps - increase at 3.5% per cycle
  • 1200 to 1800dps - 1.75% per cycle

In other words, make it difficult and time consuming to reach those DPS levels that actually break tanks.
It would give the weapon systems enough DPS to be somewhat competitive with other ships 30% of the price which start out at 800 dps +, while being rewarded the longer they shoot. All this while being under neut pressure, tank pressure, Ewar, you name it.

The disintegrators were pretty hard to use well, its not like other ships where you do less damage if not at optimal, they do no damage. Not only that, but if you get reset, you lose all the dps you previously built up. This was a significant limitation of the weapon and frankly, unless you could control the battlefield in some manner or the application of it, these were not a good choice.

Maybe have some rigs or mods that increase initial DPS at the cost of ramping dps or increase ramping max dps at the cost of initial dps. That would allow us to customize the ships based on what their roles are.

Look at the table. First two are pre and post nerf 2 sink.

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your sheet would be better if cumulated diff was actually a cumulated diff.
like (post-cumul-pre-cumul)/pre-cumul. So it would show -20.07% instead of 79.93%
Same for dps diff.

It’s pretty funny to watch a bunch of money-grinding carebears coil around each other like snakes in a pit while complaining about “nerfs” to ships they’ve never once used in a PvP scenario.

rrrrreeeeEEeEeEeEEEeEEee

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Agreed. And even arguing ‘Mimimi can’t grint HighTier Abyssals now’ is ridiculous, since there are so many other HACs/FactionCruisers that don’t perform well in there. Muninn, Deimos, Eagle, Cynabal, Orthrus, Vigilant, Ashimmu can only laugh about these complaints. Trig ships offer a fair deal: Get double the DPS as everone else of the same size, plus many gimmicks like RR boni, neut boni, SB boni and awesome base stats of the hull, at the cost of having to stay in the fight until the spoolup is done. No wonder they arent great performers in time-sensitive situations, but they don’t have to be the best in every situation. Suck at the sprint, shine at the Marathon.

2 Likes

Just long enough to be cut in half.

Might as well reprocess it.

Probably not even that.

HA! Don’t hold your breath.

Kleenex ships. One use and trash them.

I always wanted them to make edencom ships deal more single target damage, but they made triglavians deal less from start. WTF.

:psyccp:

Hey there! Happy to weigh in and provide some additional clarity as to why this type of change was made, compared to others (such as tracking nerfs, or various spool nerfs).

Entropic Disintegrators are a unique weapon type in EVE - a weapon that progressively does more damage as it’s able to apply - and the designers strove to maintain that uniqueness. An issue we identified when examining data from various weapon systems is that that these ships were very often not spooling on targets. Their exceptional tracking, combined with the platforms of the ships, allowed them to kill targets well before their spool up began. This was especially true in PvP settings for the Kikimora, Draugur, Vedmak, Drekavac, and to a lesser extent the Leshak.

In order to maintain the theme of the Triglavian weapons, the range, tracking, ramp time, and ramp DPS was left the same. The initial damage was reduced by 20%, but each increment of ramp was subsequently increased. On the T2 Triglavian hulls - Nergal, Draugur, and Ikitursa - the max DP was actually, as well.

EVE Online is a complex ecosystem, where balancing can be difficult - especially when ships are used in a multitude of ways. We’re aware that Ikitursa fits need to be substantially changed in order to be consistently effective in high-levels of the Abyss, and will continue to monitor the effectiveness of our balance pass for future considerations.

I understand that some Abyss runners are upset by this change, but I hope that adding the additional context for why the change was made was helpful.

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What makes you think im a high sec carebear? Ive been playing since 2007, 4 accounts, did and do everything from WH to null, to abyss and pvp and everything in between. Its pretty funny watching people give a worthless opinion.

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