Unconventional Procurer Tactic

Communications Center General Discussion
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I call this the “LS Ice ProcTackler”.

It’s for mining ice, and, having no experience yet, I decided to increase the drone’s damage further incase the low-sec rats were too strong. (My test battles in a drone frigate seem to have mixed results. The 1mil isk bounty rats don’t even take a dent).

So with the added damage, my number one rule: fly with stabs was out of the question. So I thought of a possible solution which I share with the forums.

I give you, the warp disrupting Procurer.

The goal is to disrupt the tackler, and try and knock him out with the drones, or do enough damage that he has to withdraw to a safer distance.

Further more the disruptor is meant to hold a tackler in place while allies come to your rescue if you were mining alone. (Say they are off hunting somewhere).

So you get tackled, you tackle the tackler, and call in the cavalry.

So I see two possible paths of success here, either the tackler with a disruptor/scram pulls away to a safer distance, or your allies swoop in and they are unable to escape (provided they have no stabs themselves).

Then, that just leaves if the Drones do enough damage to even tickle a typical tackle build?

Either way, feel free to evaluate. It’s roll is meant to be in a Low Sec system and have allies present somewhere.

Otherwise, the drones would have to do enough damage to matter. Forcing the opponent to withdraw and allowing you to warp out?

-Regards

[Procurer, LS Ice ProcTackler]
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
EM Ward Amplifier II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II

Ice Harvester I
Ice Harvester I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hornet I x5

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This thread should be posted in https://forums.eveonline.com/c/pvp-gameplay-center

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Where ever it seems best. It’s so late for me, 48hr-shift lol

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Yeah, there’s more to these forums than just General Discussion.

And get some sleep, it does a body good.

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At that point, why not just use a endurance.

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DMC’s right. It’s the wrong subforum and get your ass to sleep.

Anyway … when you’re getting caught in lowsec then you’re dead already. The odds of you surviving any encounter are extremely low. You’d be having more chances with a skiff.

With the ships inevitable demise in mind, the problem turns into something else.

Please note that I’m not trying to tell you how to play.
I’m trying to give you more options to consider.

I’ll expand on that. First though let’s consider the three possible scenarios. Please know that the likelihood of one of them happening increases over time, unless you go out of your way making sure you’re all alone, which turns this whole thread moot … so I’ll instead assume you’re not trying really hard to get out of the way of everyone. The below are ordered from least likely to most likely.

  • Scenario A
    You never encounter anyone. Using a proc/skiff thus costs you yield unnecessarily.

  • Scenario B
    You encounter a lone soldier in lowsec and manage to kill him.
    Good job. You’re still low on yield, though.

  • Scenario C
    They catch your ship and no matter what you do, you explode anyway.

Consider that there is no way you’re not going to lose your ship. You mean well and you want to stand a fighting chance, but besides maybe killing a tackler or one other ship, you’re still going down to the fleet that’s coming for you.

Because of this, and because everyone’s using tankier mining ships too,
I’m always going full yield in covetors or Hulks, assuming I can fly them.

The benefits of this are, first and foremost, higher yield in every scenario. The second best benefit is that it actually makes you consider your situation properly and help you staying more alert. You’ll be spending time thinking about safety-optimizing your mining instead of spending time on something that will inevitaby end with your ship exploding.

I can assure you that it’s really easy staying safe while mining, even in lowsec,
as long as you follow a few basic rules.

  • Prep your asteroid belt with bookmarks. Of course you’re not using the mining ship for this. Find a direct line going right through the belt, allowing your mining ship to reach every asteroid. Make two bookmarks, one on each end of the line, as far apart as you’re willing to put … in but at least off grid.
    Using celestials can be helpful, because it might mislead people into believing you warped to a station/citadel, when you actually didn’t. Make sure both bookmarks are slightly above or below the asteroid belt, so you don’t bump into a roid.

  • Fit your lowslots for max yield and your rigs for inertia. Two Nozzle joints and a Higgs will make sure you’re reaching warp-out-velocity quickly. The higgs rig has the additional effect that it slows your ship down enough so you can slowly move through the belt. It’s not as slow as a proper spider-webbed fleet (like we use), but it’s still far better than without.

  • Have your bookmarks in a seperate window at the left or right bottom corner. There should be two bookmarks in it. The top bookmark should be the one you want to escape to while you’re mining in one direction. That means that, when your mining ship turns around, you have to change the order of the bookmarks. This window you place so that your target bookmark covers the corner of the screen, like this:

image

This allows you to just shove the mouse into the corner, instead of requiring you to hit the bookmark exactly. It’s a huge time saver, because just shoving it into a corner is always going to be faster, no matter what. Training this is really helpful. Never assume you can do things right just because they seem easy.

  • Always play zoomed out, so you can see what’s going on around you.

  • Fit WarpCoreStabs against cloakers. These are the only ships that can actually get you into trouble, because you might not see them decloaking. If fitting one is worth it for you, then you should do it. I wouldn’t.

With this, you’re safe except against the most notorious, or ships who don’t suffer from a locking penalty after cloaking. Against everyone else you can use this to warp out within a second, or two, depending on your training.

Can you imagine people saying I’m not a miner?

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Well, that was different, but also informative too.

:+1:

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Yeah that was pretty awesome by @Solstice_Projekt

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Higgs and Stabs were my original fit…I just didn’t know if the rats can be killed with a Procurer’s drones.

Seems that it requires more firepower to take down a spawned cruiser. So moot anyway.

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As someone who did low-sec baiting in a Procurer long ago, I only have a few things to add:

  • You need a Stasis Webifier
  • Swap the Warp Disruptor for a Warp Scrambler

Warp Disruptors have good range and all, but they are pretty pointless (ha!) on a ship that is about as fast as a pregnant whale swimming through cold molasses.

If the objective is to kill anything, you will need to “lock it down” so that it can’t escape and can somewhat control the range of the engagement.
Hence the Stasis Webifier (-50 to 60% speed on target ship) and the Warp Scrambler (+2 warp disruption AND shuts off Microwarpdrives and Microjumpdrives).

Now yes… this will leave you vulnerable to fast tackle that is using a long point themselves.
This means you may have to think about escape if you see an interceptor on D-Scan.
But, if you play your cards right, you can potentially trick a long-pointer to come within range of your own tackle. Simply act dumb. :stuck_out_tongue: But bear in mind that there is no guarantee of this.

Also make sure that you are in a fleet with a bunch of people (preferably hunters themselves) that can come to your aid if things get hairy.
Hell… make friends with a few “hunter types” in low-sec. You could make the argument that you may attract targets they can shoot! :smiley:

All that aside though… Solstice Projekt is correct in that low-sec resource gathering is too high-risk for the amount of money you can potentially gain.
High-sec ice mining may be crowded as hell, but at least you get to keep your ship over the long-term… whereas in low-sec a person should consider their ship “lost” upon undocking.

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I thought of adding this but the 10km range seemed too low.

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Again the range. Should it be 2 disruptors instead?

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People are not going to try to kite your procurer. They will rush right in.

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You can have 5 warp disruptors and the result would be the same.
The target can use a Microwarpdrive and either dictate range or escape outright.
(see: Only Warp Scramblers disable Microwarpdrives and Microjumpdrives)

Here is a way to breakdown tackle:

  • Warp Disruptors are ideal on ships that can dictate the range of the fight (see: they are faster and more mobile)
  • Warp Scramblers and Webs are ideal on ships that are slower and/or need to be at close range to deal damage

A Procurer falls into the latter category. It is not fast and drones, while they have an engagement envelope of 40 to 50km, work better at close range where you can pull them in and redeploy if the hostile has targeted them.

In giving up the ability to point at long range you would be more dangerous at close range for any Frigate and some Destroyers (Cruisers are iffy, they have too much tank/firepower for a Procurer to chew through).
It is all about tradeoffs. :wink:

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Why not just prepare for a long point yourself?

There isn’t a lot of EHP from shields on the Procurer so maybe 2 disrupt and a stasis.

Then armor tank?

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In this scenario your goal is accomplished of breaking their tackle and you can warp out?

Because otherwise they are just too far away?

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What are some typical tackle fits to compare with?

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By the way I read what you wrote about microjumps and scrams.

How often do fast tackles or belt tacklers use those?

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  • If you are dealing with a Tech 1 Frigate/Destroyer with a Tech 2 point (range 24km); it is possible to chase off the hostile.
    – Warrior IIs are generally fast enough to pick away at Tech 1 frigates.
  • If you are dealing with an Interceptor with a Tech 2 point (24km + 7km bonus range); your odds of escaping/winning depend entirely upon your ship fit, back-up, and/or the competence of the hostile.
    – Note: Most Interceptors can outrun most drones.
  • If you are dealing with a tanked, brawler frigate; your odds of escaping/winning depend entirely upon your ship fit, back-up, and/or the competence of the hostile.
    – Without any ability to control the hostile ship’s speed, the Frigate would be fast enough to mitigate drone damage and would be able to pound away… while probably packing its own scrambler/web combo.

Mmmmm… depends on the ship and fit.

Warp Scramblers are pretty common on more hard-hitting ships (like Assault Frigates, Destroyers, and Cruisers+).
Warp Disruptors are more common on faster, “kiting” ships.

You will encounter more of the latter. But note that in gearing yourself more towards range you will leave yourself vulnerable at close range.
And the odds of getting a kill (or even chasing off an attacker) at long range are very low.**

In taking the opposite approach (gearing the ship with a Scrambler/Web and going for close range combat) you become more vulnerable to long range, but your odds of actually scoring a kill and being lethal dramatically increase.

** Note: If you want a better idea on how to avoid combat or better protect yourself, I would HIGHLY recommend that you try being a “hunter” yourself.
Join up with a low-sec group (either Faction Warfare or any “pirate” organization) and you will quickly learn the mechanics and various tactics. Hell… grab a frigate and try hunting on your own.

Also… bear in mind that the low-sec mentality regarding combat is more “shoot on sight!!” than “is it worth my time?”
I have personally sacrificed an untold amount of Tech 1 Frigates to ensure that the target dies. :slight_smile:

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If you equip 1 warp stab, they will have to get within that range to scram you, as a point alone wouldn’t keep you where you are. (Yea they could still bubble you or use 2 points…)

So I’d equip 1 warp core stabilizer, 1 scram, some combat drones to scare off tacklers and perhaps some ECM drones to give you a small chance to break free.

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