Maybe your point wasn’t very good then. What was it again? That “some people hunt them for the loot and don’t want to be attacked by others”? Which they still could if the engagement would be designed a bit more balanced so others aren’t doomsdayed in properly fitted ships for just shooting at a random red NPC cruiser on a HS gate? So, maybe I havent ignored your point, but refuted it?
Since you asked me to repeat myself finally.
You ignored the training part. The engagement is easier than the ones found in Pochven and Drifter Hives. It IS balanced. New players can ignore them, (there are plenty of warning signs), people who want a challenge can challenge themselves, and idiots can get their ships exploded. Everyone wins.
Guys, slow down… I can barely keep up!
And all of that could still be done if the mechanic is changed in a way that unsuspicious casual players won’t get doomsdayed any more for shooting at some red NPC cruisers at a HS gate.
NOTHING would change for your “training purposes”. Argument refuted. Move on.
You want them removed from high sec. That’s all I’ve seen of what you want to be changed.
Absolutely nowhere in High sec do cruisers spawn (on gates/stations) that you can safely kill. This is just a false assumption by you.
They can be in high-sec - they just shouldn’t be so over-the-top. Couldn’t we have toned down Triglavian/Edencom/Drifters in high-sec? No insta-blap, no doomsday?
They are toned down for high sec fully 1/5th of the damage of Hikanta.
Weren’t you the guy that claimed “wording is utmost important”? Don’t you get the hint why I explcitly wrote “I personally believe” instead of “I want them removed”? I can believe A) and still accept that A) isn’t the best solution for a problem in the bigger picture.
And you have intentionally (???) missed all the hints that I would actually accept a redesign instead of a removal from HighSec? Did you? Then please follow the discussion if you want to participate further.
In a properly fitted ship you can engage 99.99% of all cruisers in HS and expect to win. Which is why an average guy can be expected to not worry too much when shooting at a Lancer which has the exact same symbol in his overview. And then be frustrated if the Reinforcements appear out of the blue and doomsday him out of the ship once he fights back. And rightly so.
I stated on Gates/Stations, so any properly fit ship can take on EDENCOM, Trig, Diamond, Drifter/Sleeper, and Sansha Incursion cruisers you say?
I do think this is a little where the argument AGAINST the ships come in. If a player is whittling down an Overshield, doing somewhere in 200-300 DPS (New bro considered) of 800K EHP. BEFORE a threat response is made. Then the player deserved being punched in the mouth.
It’s the aggression timer that breaks down for me. That because in my last play session, I goofed up, that next time they see me I’ll be aggressed.
If that’s within the same 24 hour period. Then I’m fine with that. “This ship looks like the last one that got me.”. If it’s say, 3 days+, that’s unreasonable. I might forget in that time.
750k doomsday damage isn’t exactly “toned down”. Pretty sure the doomsday is the same on all drifters, so saying it does less DPS than the wormhole variant doesn’t change the fact it’s too much for high-sec.
It is though, it is much less. I thought they were only 400k for Cassandra. Hikanta is 2.5M. The point is to dodge it though.
Thats completely irrelevant, because what matters is the experience the average player has. He does encounter red marked NPC cruisers while ratting in belts, missions, arcs, anomalies… and he gets a rough feeling how strong they are.
Diamond Cruisers don’t camp on gates. I have never seen one there. Trig/Edencom aren’t red by default. Also you get an explicit warning message before jumping into a system of theirs. I also haven’t seen Incursion cruisers on Gates for a long long time, I assume they removed those NPC gatecamps, like they removed he Trig Gatecamps that would attack even players without standing.
But all that isn’t even the point: They all don’t DOOMSDAY you if you try to fight them.
99.99% of all cruisers in HS are those in Missions, Anomalies, Epic Arcs etc… thats where the combat experience and judgement on the strength of NPC cruisers comes from. And no average HS dude can even remotely expect the completely different behaviour (tackle, neut, dps, doomsday) of the reinforcements the Lancers spawn. Thats the point of the whole topic. It is counterintuitive. Unconstructive. Nonbenefitial.
I was just going off EVE wiki that indicated 750k for the doomsday on Apollo and Artemis. No idea what the Casssndra lancer does.
And drifters do. They are a threat that players should learn to deal with. A lot of people learned that the DD can just be dodged with the last event.
And 100% of cruisers on HS gates and stations are much more deadly. This has been true for 15 years. (before which they never existed). This is just something players learn (but vets are unable to learn it seems).
Arty and Apollo are only found on wormholes when they are in highsec. ARC is a better source for how to deal with drifters (KYBER or EDI might be too, but I’m unsure).
Most Drifters don’t. Players attack and kill Drifters in WH space all the time. They don’t doomsday.
It makes no sense to have non-Doomsday Drifters in the most difficult endgame-PVE sites in WH space, but have them as reinforcements for a lousy HS cruiser.
It’s counterintuitive. Unconstructive. Nonbenefitial.
NPC cruisers on gates in HS aren’t red in 99.99% of all cases. Thats why Players usually don’t deal with them. And the 0.01% (Lancers) that are, shouldn’t just call for doomsday reinforcements.
Again: Please EXPLAIN why a change of the mechanic to make it more balanced, less frustrating, challenging instead of doomsdaying would be bad for the game. I ask again: Please answer that simple question. All those who want that content would lose NOTHING.
There are more types with doomsdays than without. Only WH and some Pochven, due to their speedy construction. Drifter Hives, Jove observatories (aka their homes) do.
Only EDENCOM cruisers are neutral by default, there are still all the other types. Much more than .01%. There are actually more Jove observatory systems than all the others combined. (Hundreds with Lancers, only like 70 or so for Trig and EDENCOM).
It already is weaker than others, making it even more is basically the same as deleting them. 1/5th as strong as the guy in Drifter Hives (for the Doomsday), you can’t get much more nerfed than that.
It’s arguably been a few years since I’ve had any serious interaction with drifters. It’s the “Cassandra” (?) NPCs that triggers the drifter battleship response with doomsday, correct? This is everywhere (high, low, null?) except wormhole space, or…?
Still seams like overkill for high-sec at least (considering most players can’t tank 750k).
Cassandra is the cruiser drifter that most often shows up. Drifter Response Battleship | EVE Ref is the Battleship that can spawn but rarely does. This is Cassandra https://everef.net/types/47153. It’s the same in all Jove Observatory systems.