What perks, other than station services there aren’t any and you circumvent those by taking 1 jump to high sec or by bringing a mobile depot
I think the idea he proposed (that I also got wrong first) is you can be positive to both but only to about +1 (no consequences but no real benefits either), but if you go higher (and start to get the upper tier trig benefits like station services and home system gates) then you’d fall to -1 to the other. So you could choose between opting out completely (no consequences but no benefits either), or getting some benefits and some downsides. That sounds entirely fair to me? (Apart from the part where there aren’t benefits for Edencom, etc, so forth, you know the drill.)
Got it also now. Home systems ok. Some higher or all PvE content ok, but limit basic station services is a problem, because it has PvP relevance. Not having production/refining is ok. IMO PvE consequences should be as much as it makes sense be kept to PvE and not spill over to PvP. Also the way back shouldn’t be another 3 months PvE grind. It was okayish in the first run, because you could get both.
But this boat has sailed anyway for EC/Trig conflict. Dual standings is in the game, and they fulfill a purpose.
Personally I’m spending most of my time in lowsec again, especially with the nice events. Pochven lost a lot of appeal to me with the changes making it more generic NPC nullsec.
Following up on the feedback provided in this thread, we’ve made some additional changes to the roaming NPC and their points of interest. We want to ensure that a few points of interest will be points of conflict between the various NPC groups that roam Pochven. You’ll see conflict between the groups around planets, suns, and the Dazh Liminality Locus.
Thanks for the feedback so far on the changes o7
Nice to see some of the conflict I spoke about will remain. It really makes the region feel alive and unique. I would implore you go further and at least some level of activity on stations and stargates for Sleepers/Drifters/Drones/Edencom, even if these conflicts are substantially rarer than they currently are.
I think the balance that is healthiest for the region is somewhere between “Can’t gate anything in case of drifters” and “Gate whatever, zero chance of drifters”.
Also, as a note about communication, I really deeply wish you would be clearer in how you communicate:
“Will focus on”
Was your OP statement. Why was this not “Will only be present at”? Or something else? Just say what you mean.
You’ll see conflict between the groups around planets, suns, and the Dazh Liminality Locus.
Why don’t you say “We are leaving conflict between the groups around planets, suns, and the Dazh Liminality Locus unchanged.” Or clarify whether you are making it rarer? “You will see” is not a clear statement in any way.
Should point out that these patches are for day one bugs. So CCP took a solid year to get to half this stuff, and even then, half these patches arent really fixes.
You should also note that a lot of trig players have been rather vocal about how edencom got screwed.
Glad they are it now and I appreciate it, but tbh the first few months were nothing but constant salt mining and “lol what do you expect you lost ha ha” (when in fact numbers were even or in favor of Edencom). I guess it takes getting screwed yourselves before you feel it.
First few months: “look at our shiny prize!”
[lives with “shiny prize” for a bit]
ugh, its broken
As for the standings discussion. Dual positive standings are dumb. That being said, getting rid of dual positive cannot be an end in itself. The big problem with all the standings stuff is that they dont really matter in any real way outside of pochven (and they barely matter there). K-Space invasion systems would be the ideal place to really implement standings related content in parallel with getting rid of dual standings. Set pochven back to trig advantage, but tilt k-space (even triglavian systems) the other way. Include mechanisms for edencom to move about pochven. Introduce narrative content that makes playing in these sysems worthwhile.
Yea pretty much. I suppose it’s easier to feel sympathy for the kids who have no toys when all your toys are broken too and the novelty wears off.
And I basically agree on everything you say about the standings. Tweaking them when they barely matter is probably not good use of time. (Though as structures go down, the station accesses will begin to matter more again.)
I’m not talking about current state - as to what perks - use your imagination.
Could be anything from environmental bonuses (home/attacker advantages/disadvantages etc)
Not everything has to be cookie cutter to achieve balance.
If all you are going to do is make personal attacks and show demeaning behavior because you don’t like/agree with feedback somebody else is giving, I can’t be bothered to reply.
I agreed that the current situation needs to change, that’s why I am talking about the arena of the site (the visible circle of structures/walls), not the grid. Should that still be too big of an area, change the condition that people have to be within 100km of the structure in order to be eligible. This will help address the risk-free situation and that is what people where complaining about the most.
With the fleet that does the most damage taking it all, it’s just a Sansha Incursion clone and it will encourage blitzing the sites without people being able to do anything about it without going n+1. And that’s something people have been complaining about for years as being a bad thing.
Not to mention that with the current respawn rate, the isk-generation that can be achieved is going to be the highest in the game and that will attract the attention of the really big groups.
Being able to run interference is an important part of Triglavian content, however it should not be without risk. My suggestions will result in a situation with mutual play and counterplay for those who run the sites and those who aim to be disrupting it.
This is solid feedback. Correcting the conditions to be eligible is needed, I believe we are both in agreement on that, yes?
I see that the dual standings is being brought up a lot and I wanted to give my thoughts on it.
The dual standings and ability to be highly positive with Edencom and Triglavians makes perfect sense because EVE is a game and that means that certain liberties with consistency are critical for the game.
If things would be more consistens as people are suggesting, that would mean that anyone who helped the Trigs would quickly be set to -10 by both the Empires and CONCORD because you betrayed them. But that didn’t happen because of the game aspect in the situation.
It has been stated that CCP did not expect people to side with Edencom and instead would heavily support the Triglavians. Using that premise, the ability to regain standings with Edencom to be able to move more freely in Empire space is also logical. People will want to be able to haul things in and out of Pochven. This extends to people not in Pochven, but not wanting to get attacked by Trigs or Edencom. They now have an option to prevent their game experience to not be negatively impacted because they didn’t or were unable to interact with the Triglavian content at the time.
Not everyone might agree with the dual standings, but it is important for the overall health of the game that the option is there.
Please pressure test this proposal. I’m not in a position to judge but it looks sound from where I am.
Its not personal, but it is pointed and specific criticism directed at your solutions. You do not fly in pochven. You are not experiencing the current gameplay. Accordingly, your input is coming from a place of ignorance. This isnt personal, and I am using the term clinically. That you do not understnad the game play is exemplified by your proposed “solution”. There is no “arena” within which players must stay. Suggesting players must stay within 100km sounds great (when you dont actually run the sites and dont understand the gameplay) but is relatively easy to game as well. Another example of your ignorance to the realities of pochven is your suggesting that seagulling is just fair play “interference” and that running sites should not be allowed without risk. Seagulling doesnt “interfere” with any gameplay. Its just economic trolling. And flying anything in Pochven, nevertheless an OBS fleet, is very risky. There were regularly large fleet fights in Pochven before the gates opened up and the exploits got entirely out of control. Something you would know if you actually flew in Pochven. I do not say that as an attack, but to highlight that your proposals are critically flawed because you lack the necessary information to form an informed opinion.
Sorry, but I have a slightly different view of this comment.
In Ch.2-3 and early Pochven, where ‘direct’ damage to the CONCORD Observatory was rewarded, there were seagulling players that seemed relatively justified. There were various variations such as cloaking-stealth bomber doctrine and artillery sniper fittings, and I also saw OBS runners develop various fittings and countermeasures such as Insta-lock Zarmazd, Machariel, and gate smarbombing to respond to their seagulling.
I was also one of the victims of seagulling, but I also admired the evolving controls and strategies of seagulling players, and sometimes even acknowledged each other. Many ships were lost in the process. However, this conflict became an opportunity to scout some of them as our corporation and work together, and we still maintain that friendship.
I’m going to deny the opinion that seagulling doesn’t have a positive effect on the game from my experience. However, I would also deny the opinion that the ‘current’ Pochven seagulling should be maintained.
We need to get to the heart of the matter. The cause of the current Pochven seagulling (and almost all of Pochven’s problems) adversely affecting the game and all players is the design of the OBS site that cannot cope with the current seagulling, that is, the design failure of the CCP and the non-active response method.
And I am of the view that anyone can comment on how to solve this problem. It is the CCP that decides whether to accept that opinion or not, and we - Pochven players are in the position to criticize the CCP when it makes the wrong decision.
While i see this workaround as somewhat positive, we do have some things to consider.
Team Event Horizon, which developed and maintained Invasion content and Pochven, has already disbanded, and (as far as I know) most of the developers that were affiliated with Team Event Horizon are no longer there. In other words, we do not currently know the capabilities of the team responsible for improving Pochven, and the difficulty of the improvement must be taken into account in order for the CCP to successfully accommodate our comments. This includes developing a new mechanism or solving it in a completely different way.
And in order to understand each other’s positions, players and developers, we need quick and accurate feedback from each other. The development team needs to communicate to players whether their current opinions are within the scope for development. The reason why players viewed Team Event Horizon favorably was because it set a good example for this feedback-response process.
@CCP_Paradox And isn’t this forum and post for that purpose?
While at first glance, always having 3 sites up and spawning the next as each site is finished appears to be an infinite isk faucet, that is far from reality. The next site spawns in a random system out of 27, it’s not possible to reliably chain these sites. It is very very lucrative and this will attract competing fleets, that’s a very good conflict driver.
However, lucrative as it may be, it is not enough to sustain an extremely large group, the max payout peaks at 15 in fleet. 3*15 players getting the most payout just doesn’t work if you have 1000s of players trying to get at it. Null sec anoms etc are far better for those sizes of groups.
There are so very many ways to interfere with fleets running these sites without your proposals:
Direct competition for sites.
Chase off a fleet and finish the site yourself.
Targeting the PvE fleet and not primarily bothering with the site.
Camping the site.
Camping gates between the systems: Pochven is one big circle, only 6 systems have more than 2 gates.
The fleet on grid doing the most damage when it completes is a simple, proven, way to address the seagull exploit.
I dont see any of that as “interference”. Its just a way for people to troll the economics and steal isk for little to no actual game input. We actively used these methods to troll certain multiboxers into abandoning efforts at times by just tanking the economics. The presence of 20 t1 frigates burning 4000km did nothing to impair his ability to run the site. It just made it economically dumb. Thats not actual interference. Its trolling. If people want to interfere in sites, it should be actual PvP.
I dont see any positive effect of seagulling except some people put money in their pocket for doing nothing. For them its been great. Other than that, I challenge you to show me all the great seagull fights happening. Ill wait. Spoiler alert, there arent. Getting dunked by RK’s murderfleet is 100x more engaging that than playing wackamole with maledictions
And I disagree that any random soul should comment on how to solve the problem. There is a baseline familiarity required to posit any sort of productive commentary. Can someone offer an idea? Sure i guess. Should they? Thats a different question all together.