what was spelled wrong?
Thats one.
If scacity really is the witch being hunted here why reverse some of it in one place and not all of it everywhere?
What if is conjecture. What if is as solid in either direction. I think youve been arguing with circular sock puppets too long, my friend.
If you want to theorise solutions to a problem, then provide a specific problem.
âWhat if there was a problem with the game that only making the richest richer could solve? How would we solve it?â does us both a diservice as debaters.
Not wanting to place words in Wadiâs mouth, Im taking it to mean an objection to my use of the word Class to refer to players based on which area of space they consider home and the wealth levels inherent in those, because he doesnt consider a distinction between a Null Sec player and a High Sec player.
I do think the country club gates exist, however.
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Anybody can become a nullsec indentured servant. Those gates are always open.
âWhat ifâ are two opening words for an - at most - hypothetical question. Itâs an invitation in the sense of âconsider for a moment that ⌠etcâ.
But if you are not in a position to consider the situation, thatâs fine. It is, after all, bon ton to talk down on anything related to nullsec. In any case, the die is cast. That change is reversed, and about high time.
I do not know if that statement is true, if nullsec dwellers are the richest. In terms of absolute numbers, they (should) rank high. But, the numbers have to be looked at in a relative sense as well, in terms of risking loss of value. Some would probably say the honors go to pochven or regular w-space dwellers, or maybe some live streamers about to attempt to make 1B isk in the next hour in hisec, but only ccp can know. So that would make the statement real conjecture 
But ⌠there is a reality to living in nullsec. Ships are rather bigger (or better equiped) here. I have a suspicion that at least part of it has to do with sov and its defence, and with strategic goals in New Eden, that it takes a lot more in terms of investment, that other groups may/will/and have dropped (super)cap/titan/golden banana fleets to make our lives a bit more complicated. Nullsec lives on a different day to day scale, maybe. Only ccp can really know. Those ships and the infrastructure that goes with it, well, it all costs more ISK. Itâs an arms race. It is what it is. We (have to) save up a lot of isk, because one day we are called upon to risk our big ships, the balls of fire they produce being used in flashy advertizing for the game, lol. Even on a daily basis we take precautions, in case there is a confrontation, from anything skirmish-like to a regular drop - you want to win, and you will try to use equipment at least similar to what the opponent is using for his roams. You get the drift.
If the âeco-systemâ related changes result in a large number of people to not be able to fly the ships they were used to flying, loved flying, needed for some strategic purpose in the game, and as a result they stop playing the game, then itâs rather obvious that what the customer wants is more important than what the numbers on a spreadsheet look like. I believe I said this at the roll-out of the changes in a post that must now be two years old. It happened. Fun was taken out. Fun (in nullsec at the very least) is for a large part fueled by the generation of isk that is needed to fly (and risk and lose) the ships one needs and loves to fly - ISK as a means to get to the fun of flying those ships etc⌠It was predicted that all this would do would be to make people risk averse. It happened. Nullsec people are generally not risk averse, but they lose interest in the game if they canât take risks anymore. Making ships near impossible to replace does just that. Simple. At least with the dbs floor raised some of the pains for replacing (bigger) ships is alleviated. Letâs hope itâs enough.
The problems specific to nullsec are well-known. They have been voiced on several forums, although not always with the underlying reasons. Itâs not about getting richer for the sake of getting richer - but maybe Iâm naive in that sense. Itâs getting back on track to defend sov and do the normal stuff expected from nullsec populations without making the daytime eve job a 24/7 job so to speak. Thatâs what scarcity did, and the industry changes. The dbs was a direct wallet hit. The industry changes are still there, so the chores are still increased by a significant factor - for reasons unknown and in my personal opinion erroneously related to the vaunted eve economy. Youâd have to ask ccp why they didnât revert the changes to blueprints, for instance. But thatâs a personal opinion, of course. Iâm not a station trader who adds up numbers in the wallet, I tend to lose ships and need to replace them. That is all I personally experience and, I suspect, others like me.
Do I think hisec needs attention ? Let me put it this way: I would not like to be a new player right now.
@Xeux Mona is exactly right with her reply:
All are equal, some just have a larger isk turnover (and risk more, although words like that will undoubtedly pull in more criticism than Iâm willing to digest or respond to, lol)
Anyway, this is strictly my personal view, which may be blissfully naive. If other nullsec dwellers care to pipe in, Iâd be more than happy to compare notes 
Not always. Iâm blacklisted from pretty much every null-sec entity except Fraternity by this point.
Just use an alt.
Thatâs not honorable.
Donât lie, itâs insulting.
Lets assume that all of nullsec had horrible income (it doesnât, itâs just less than it used to be). Then all the nullsec groups are in that situation so instead of fighting each other with fleets of 500 Avatars youâd be fighting each other with fleets of 500 Hurricanes. It doesnât affect anything.
It IS about rampant excessive grinding for (rl) iskies.
Bots? Asking for a friend.
Donât accuse me of lying or dishonesty unless you have proof. Whatâs your proof ? The insult is entirely yours, at this moment.
Iâll make this extra simple for you. Letâs say you are used to riding a carbon fiber framed electric bike for outings on sunny Sundays. You even love competing a bit with other people riding similar bikes. You love the bike for what it can do and what you do with it.
One day, for circumstances outside your influence, you no longer have access to that bike. Youâre forced to ride your dadâs old bike, the one with the aluminum frame and no electric motor. It will affect your FUN, it will affect what you can do with it. At worst it will make you lose interest in that particular passtime.
The proverbial genie was out of the bottle. People got used to flying those ships, of playing the game in a certain way and in a certain spirit. They didnât ask for it, it was designed into the game. The rest is history. There is no way to make them stop wanting and expecting the possibility to continue to fly those ships and force them to continue to play the same game, unless you want to lose long time customers. Along the same line, if people in real life no longer have access to what they are used to, but have to be content with far less, there will even be serious trouble on the horizon. Unlike game players people in real life do not have an escape route.
This has nothing to do with what you feel is right or wrong in a space game, but everything with running an entertainment product as a business and keeping the customer base. So stop criticizing people for expecting to continue the same level of fun, thank you.
My proof is that itâs impossible to be this dumb and state that itâs not about iskies. The proof that is IS about iskies is that people buggered off the second iskies wasnât the main reason to be in null anymore, according to them.
Thatâs like saying that if CCP nerfs some ship thatâs super overpowered, and instead simply makes it competitive, that itâs now âuselessâ and âno funâ. Things change, balance changes, adapt and HTFU. Itâs literally the logic of a 5 year old. Or as I put it in another thread:
They never actually made any interesting goals for themselves other than âgrind for the overpowered class in the current expansion and make space dollarsâ while doing as they were told. And now theyâre told to sulk and rage because their masters are losing their own power and space dollars race so the narrative is that the class that was silly overpowered needs to be made overpowered again, otherwise the game is no longer âfunâ.
âGive us back the overpowered stuff, otherwise the game is no funâ. GTFO.
Thatâs not proof, itâs a restatement of the same opinion. I have a different opinion. You call me a liar for having a different opinion. My opinion is based on some very basic psychology.
Iâm sure Muninns will still have a place in the doctrines. And the other HACS as well. Everyone is still able to get those.
The DIFFERENCE with the scarcity/indy/dbs changes particular to nullsec is that a whole gameplay style got under pressure to the point of becoming nearly impossible. You may not be terribly impressed by that particular style (or anything it takes to be able to play in that way), but that is not relevant to the enjoyment of the players involved - of which there are many.
You firstâŚ
FTFY.
So there are too many nullsec players to your taste ?
Weâll leave our little exchange at that point. It is past ridiculous, just petty and belligerent. The day you can objectively look at other players and how they play we can perhaps continue a sensible conversation.
Weâre not talking about Muninns, I would think this is obvious. Weâre talking about
And you can, you just canât run 17 accounts all paid for by PI, rampant (over) production and possibly skill extracting while reaping the benefits of said accounts, using them to farm till your eyes bleed so they can get another Nyx or Rorq. Ginding for grindingâs sake. THAT has been addressed and for good reason as it creates an imbalance.
Thereâs too many grinders and numbers go up people, that do all too much production on their myriad of accounts messing up the economy and creating bloat of, well, everything. The ânever enoughâ people.
The time for sticks is past. The carrots make a return. Itâs a good business decision. Instead of forcing a limitation on to nullsec players other visions could have lead to new counters to âthe supercap problemâ. But thatâs still out there, isnât it.
You should have made an effort to understand an honest opinion instead of crying foul on everything and everyone involved with nullsec. Open mind, and that sort of thing, except of repeating the usual grrrrsomething.
The question is how what happens in nullsec affects your game play and enjoyment of the game.
On a sidenote: If anything, the access to e.g., tech 1 spaceships hasnât become easier since the changes, has it ? Or should we consider t1 battleships the new golden standard in the game. Itâs not going to happen.
Yeah no.
oh poor thing , if i had a null alliance i would totally accept you
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