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Communications Center General Discussion
149

My play styles got nerfed quite a few times. Solo wardeccing, aggression mechanics, nano nerfs (several, and well deserved), ECM changes, by buffing all kinds of null bits making it more difficult to do solo or small gang content.

Did I get mad? Yes.
Did I make angry rant posts? Yes
Did I do the “change this or the game dies and I’ll quit”? No
Did I quit? No

I accepted and adapted, like an adult does. Changes my focus and investments and kept playing. WHY? Because I’m here for the pvp sandbox, the game and my friends and there’s no game like it. Because of that I like people who are here for the pvp sandbox and I loathe everyone who tries to turn this pvp sandbox into a grind simulator.

150

Perhaps all those wallet voters are saying that maybe you are wrong in your expectation of how much to adjust and adapt ? Good luck convincing them.

151

Perhaps I don’t care about them and, seemingly, neither does CCP much. Also, you’re part of “them”.

152

Indeed, you seem to take yourself as an absolute standard. Good show !

And since I am “one of them”, I assume that’s why you call me dumb and a liar. Any non-knuckle dragging reader of these forums will see the limitations of your replies and see them for what they really are, limited unfounded and prejudiced to the extreme.

I am sorry to have wasted time on you. Goodbye.

153

No I call you a liar because you lie, going “I doubt people go to null for the isk”, to then (like all liars) avoid and dance around the issue, like a 5 year old trying to get his cookie:

thinking he very smarts and elusive in making people believe his nonsense, but it’s very obvious and no one’s falling for it.

154

Can I just add one more thing?

Just because its a game and not real life, the consquences of bad luck and forces outside your control are not things that should be hand waved away.

Storms, wars, freak accidents, communications black outs, crop failures and the like should be part of the simulation as much as good rng rolls and the enemy jumping to the wrong system.

I know that in certain RL circles there is the sense that theres no such thing as bad luck, the poor choose to be poor and misfortune is a resut of bad managment if your resources, but anyone who actually is truthful to themselves should be able to see this is not the case and accept that bad luck happens, and loss is inevitable.

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155

So tell me, dear @Aisha_Katalen forum alt, this deep feeling of loathing you said you have in an earlier post, to what degree does it prevent you from developing a balanced view on game and people that you could share on a public forum ? Asking for a friend.

is, as you could see if you made the effort, not what I said. That’s what you made of it, because that’s what you want to read even if it wasn’t there. Must be that “loathing” thing …

is what I said. There are undoubtedly people who are drawn to null with dreams of ISK, and undoubtedly there are some who even get away with it unnoticed, and dodge their responsibilities to the group who maintains the sov space (anyone from alli/corp leadership down to the youngest line member who spends time, isk and ships to keep the place functional). But sooner or later they get purged, because they are unwilling to share the risk with the rest. That risk involves losing (valuable) ships. Which brings us back to square 1.

156

The balanced view is that It if things get silly in terms of asset/resource/isk gathering, while being able to plex a zillion accounts doing it, to the point where you can have fleets of Titans and not even care about replacing them is wrong. Especially if you compare it to other types&locations of isk/resource/asset gathering. It’s fine for there to be a difference, desired even, but it’s NOT fine for it to be out of whack.

The funny thing is that Brisc stated that the CSM/he/Goons agreed on that when CCP decided to create this problem in the first place and they told CCP that is was a dumb idea and it would end in… what we have now. And now CP agrees as well. So CCP thinks it’s bad, your overlords thought it’s bad (but now they don’t magically, I wonder why) and, not that it matters, I think it’s bad. The only people who don’t think it’s bad are… the ones who did that stuff and don’t like to be nerfed.

Who are to believed more. CCP and your overlords who stated it’s bad or aaall the grind bears who don’t like being nerfed.

That’s what you said quite a while after the conversation didn’t go your way.

This is the lie you voiced:

And then followed by a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, like all talkers and liars do.

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First, look up what a “proviso” is, because there is one in that sentence you quoted. Unlike you I do not consider my own opinion an absolute truth, and that was visible to any other reader but you.
Second, your impaired comprehension does not equate to my statement being a lie.
Third, you may not like my answer about why people like dwelling in sov nullsec, but it’s the only one you are going to get from me, because it’s my opinion. Simple as that.
Four, there really is no point in trying to explain or expand on anything with you because you are completely prejudiced.
Five, you loathe nullsec and anyone living in it, fine. I can live with that. Take your grievances to CCP…
Six, you still didn’t get the core of the discussion. You got hopelessly stuck on the level of grrrnullsec. Surprise surprise.
Seven, if you expect me to debunk all the ■■■■■■■■ and all the grievances you ramble on about, it’s not worth my time. You created the stew, you eat it.

Not everyone trying to engage with you in conversation is producing smoke and mirrors, a talker and liar. You can’t handle a discussion that isn’t going your way without resorting to insults and accusations. Grow up. Or don’t… And that’s me still saying it in a fairly polite way.

Edit: congratulations. You are the first on my forum block list

158

Because that’s the lie you try to sell.

As said several times now, no I don’t. But hey, feel free to use it as smoke and mirrors.

I do: people want their overpowered and out of whack toys and play styles back. They want it back because it IS overpowered and out of whack. In a player driven MMO about player interaction this is an issue, would this be some sort of semi MMO that’s really just a solo player game with some sort of multiplayer lobby then that would be fine but EVE isn’t that.

EVE is a communicating vessels kind of thing where everything affects everything else, if only indirectly. And for too long it’s been out of balance.

159

You’ve made like 30 more posts and still haven’t come up with one single way lowering the payout of null sec ratting made any single other point of the game objectively better. You realize everyone still has the same titans, the same supers, everything they had before they lowered it? No one lost their toys. And obviously CCP didn’t like the way it was going since they just changed it back. I spent a year in null and made exactly 0 isk. I didn’t rat a single time, no mining, nothing. I spent billions to fight every day. That’s why I went. To see titans, to watch a keepstar explode. To fight with a thousand other players at once. Things you can’t do anywhere else in eve. And the vast majority of my corp was the same way. You don’t seem to have any idea what it’s like for a lot of people in null. Who hurt you out there?

160

Thats exactly the point.

No one has lost anything, yet the complaining reached such a crescendo that CCP caved. Now they can all have even more.

161

I did several times, you just didn’t want to hear it: Balance, more isn’t always better. Balance with other play styles, the supply and demand of resources and items when competing with other play styles and locations. It’s good if there’s differences, it’s bad if it’s not somewhat balanced.

Yeah they are just more expensive and difficult to replace. Balancing isn’t a binary yes/no thing, it’s mostly a “a few percent here and there” thing and sometimes it’s a “yeah no, fck that” thing.

That’s because you are a financed character.

162

That’s what made the change weird in the first place to me. If you have something that costs 20b, and then ccp says well now it costs 35b AND you make less money, it what scenario would that possibly make people more likely to use and lose those ships? If decreasing titans and super caps was the goal for whatever reason, I don’t know if they could have picked a more backwards way to do it.

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Everyone is a financed charter. You finance it with money or time, which is the same thing as money.

164

What makes you think that was the goal? I mean, Im serious, was it stated?

If so, and it was backwards, I cant for the life of me work out how giving people MORE access to them would make them rarer either.

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165

Nah you’re evading the point.

Your statement of “see, this character never made any ingame money so this thing about null for the most part being about iskies is just a lie” is not only a hilarious take it’s also anecdotal.

166

It’s hard to pick out direct statements from CCP to one specific result here. There were a lot of comments and devblogs back then pointing out things like “overabundance of resources”, “massive stockpiles” and “loss not being meaningful”.

CCP made it fairly clear in their main devblog on the issue that they believed player income had to be cut back to about half what it was, that resources had to be chopped into different sectors so individuals and smaller groups couldn’t be self-sufficient, and that resources/production had to be dialed back to cut down on stockpiles.

As usual, CCP (and tbh, a good many players) misunderstood their own game and their own ecosystem. As well as player motivation in MMOs in general.

They believed penalties to trading, to income, to resource production and manufacturing - which in effect halved the ‘value’ of player time - would force players to play more and longer. And for some reason they envisioned players would fight each other more, even though everything would be more expensive, take longer to replace, and require more effort and material to produce.

If a central tenet of EVE is “don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose”, then “let’s make everything take longer, be more expensive, and harder to replace” is a sure-fire method for nuking your own game. CCP was told this both in advance and as changes were introduced.

The completely obvious point that CCP was clueless about was not that you reduce wealth and stockpiles by slapping clamps all over the economy. You do it by giving people more reasons to fight and to expend their resources.

This is the prime area that CCP has been blind about, or incapable of imagining, for roughly a decade now. EVE’s game mechanics are basically designed to promote stability, security and a steady resource/production stream. Whereas CCP and some players seem to think these designs will result in wild-west shoot-em-ups, brush wars, and regional conflicts.

Scarcity doesn’t breed conflict… at least, not the kind CCP comes up with. Wars are generally fought over resource control, or to eliminate imminent/perceived threats.

All CCP’s efforts have accomplished is to reduce activity in virtually every area of the game, send players off to other games, and reduce their own income.

That’s what’s leading to the recent desperate efforts to reverse these trends… not exclusive clubs whining for their toys back.

167

Yes.

Also yes

This is an assumption you make. It might be that CCP is willing to take a short term hit because they see bigger problems long term if they didn’t correct things. They could also just want to go back to a HTFU version of EVE, but that’s an assumption I make.

You lower available resources by giving them more… resources? Come on now.

I would say that it’s, apart from basic logic, mostly been a way for null blocks to enhance their power, pilot pool and income. CCP certainly had a part in it, same for the CSM but it’s mostly player groups seeing an opportunity and going for it which I don’t fault them for as it makes good sense but you can’t “blame” CCP for this.

168

Of course it’s anecdotal, everyone’s experience in life is anecdotal. Its the only relevant experience to me that I care about at all. But it also shows that people absolutely go to null for reasons other than isk, which just seems so shocking to you