Update on HICs and Wormholes

[Hanazava_Karyna]

I refuse to believe you were in CSM for worhole peeps and I was voting for you.

[Annie_Seko]

@CCP_Rise, why not just put a hull restriction on all hics not to allow 500mn moduals to be fitted?

[Xelios]

@CCP_Rise

(taking away 500mn MWD HICs in this case) and trusting wormholers to continue to adapt and define their own rules, as they have since they first left k-space behind.

But, it’s clear that asking for adaptation in this case was too much.

Yeah, I figured you guys had no plans to ever revisit this despite the vague maybes in the dev blog. Thank god people reacted fast and loud or this would have become the new normal.

Thanks for reconsidering though. It’s not always easy to deal with the weird wormhole mechanics in relation to the rest of the game, I get that.

[Murkar_Omaristos]

lol too simple apparently, every little change needs to be addressed in an overly complicated manner and with an entirely new module that consumes developer & art team time/effort.

[Hanazava_Karyna]

Hush, don’t talk too loudly about new modules or Fozzie will show up again

[BALKAN_KARAVAN]

Are you F**** serious??? quit the game at this point

[Empanada]

I don’t have idea what it’s going on, never had experience in wormholes or any mechanic discuss in this clarification, but come here to see the “quit the game” replies and laughs. good work ccp btw, these balances are very nice.

[Sage_Mo]

Great fix! Really glad we’ve been heard. Amazing response! I love you guys/girls.

[Artanis_Talander]

wormhole csm rep btw

[Alcarne_Xero]

@CCP_Rise

Wormhole space was never even meant to be habitable and now we have long-standing wormhole empires.

Even if this were true, you’d have to have been incredibly narrow minded when releasing an update with ENTIRE SYSTEMS hidden inside wormholes, to think that players wouldn’t notice the planetary objects that you could position player owned stations around.

Far more agregious is the contempt CCP has already displayed, by arrogantly ignoring promises previously made and moving toward removing the object of the issue instead of fixing it.

@CCP_Rise

We underestimated how critical this tool is and even though we would love to take a more holistic look at collapse mechanics, we understand that the existing behavior needs to be supported until that happens. We are now planning to introduce a new module in October specifically for ship mass reduction.

This is a brilliant step in the right direction. Putting your hands up and saying “we messed up, sorry we’ll fix that thing you wanted fixing instead of removing it, we had no idea it was so crucial” bridges a gap between players and developers.
If only you could go a step further and have a representative in touch with the community which you’ve antagonised… o… oh wait…

@Brisc_Rubal

I’m glad that we were able to resolve this issue for the WHers and do so before the October release.

From what I’ve seen so far, your only reliable ability here is to rile up the community to torch & pitch-fork level in a short time, by means of arrogance and self importance. Please either keep your gaping maw shut, for the sake of patching things up with the community which reviles you so much, or learn some humility.

[Wander_Prian]

@Alcarne_Xero

Even if this were true, you’d have to have been incredibly narrow minded when releasing an update with ENTIRE SYSTEMS hidden inside wormholes, to think that players wouldn’t notice the planetary objects that you could position player owned stations around.

This is something that heard years ago at fanfest from the former CCP Greyscale (one of the original devs on wormhole-space): The ability to set up a POS on a moon in a certain area is basically a tickbox. He decided, very last minute, to allow it as nobody would be crazy enough to actually live there long-term. He though the constantly changing routes and possibility of getting cut out from your home would be enough to keep people out of W-space on a more permanent basis.

He did continue this by saying what we made W-space into is much better than their original concept and much more fun and interesting.

[Sleyas]

Is there something wrong with your perception?

I will give you some points to think about:

-Intel chanel (including intel bots)
-Unlimted ratting (including direct payout)
-Unlimited mining (including the most worthiest ores BY FAR)
-Super umbrella (and the ability to move those)
-Jumpclones/Deathclones in your ever safer home
-Local chat protecting you from scary wormhole people (see intel and your intel bots)

What has been the last changes to WHs CCP enabled you to build massive captial fleets you can throw around everywhere you need?

We got moon ores… inferior moon ores… half a year after Nullsec. While we don’t even have the chance to move around the ships that are required to mine it on a level where you could say its worth it for anyone who is in the game for more then two years. You nullbears build a rorq and can mine on 150 moons with a whole rorq fleet in jumprange of your capital fleet. We got nothing that could even come close to this.

WH Mass is limited, T3s are the best impact/mass ratio aaaand we still lose SP with every T3. Your F1 monkeys throw around capitals like candy without any impact and insurance covering most of your losses as if capitals are nothing special compared to T3s .

We got T3 Gas… thanks bob for that, but we only have respawning gas sites every now and then.
Some Wormhole CSM was doing RMT and thats why all wormholers are doomed?
Guess what, Nullbears made Nullsec their personal safespace and they did RMT and botting aswell.

So that “wormholer victim complex” maybe comes from the fact that we ARE the vicitms of almost every change of the past year because it VASTLY favoured Nullsec in a way WH can’t keep up with because its simply impossible.

The real cancer of Eve is Nullbears that harass everyone in HS, pay suicide ganks and mercs just for HS people, then go back to their Nullspace, demand that it should be safe from everything while making dank isk and never face the consequences of beeing stupid.

You lose your captial and get podded… oooh, what a shame, here your loss is already covered, you wake up in your NS pocket and your rorq fleet as already mined 3 more for you.

I made myself a ratting toon the other day, 60 days old it has made me 7bil isk in a simple VNI.

Man, your nullsec life must be hard, look what a special treatments WHs get when they demand not beeing forced roll themselfes out every day when they want to do anything.

If you fail to see how much easier nullsec life is and has become in the last 6 years and how easy you can move, make isk, have fights, see hostiles in your home and do supplies and still thing wormholers receive a “special treatment” because they simply demand to be able to roll wormholes you should not have a say in game changes.

[Scooter6976]

1st, ty for reviewing the prior blog, and attempting to correct course. even if this was a staged exercise in ‘we listen to the community’ im happy you all at least pretend to listen.

but, this shouldn’t b soo hard. if you want to stop the lurch hic, then make it so that activating a bubble instantly shuts off the mwd. the server tick happens, the boat slows immediately (cuz 99% agility), and the hic can reactivate his mwd with the correct stats in effect. why would this be soo hard to implement?

next thread of complaint will b the obscene rates of speed hic are achieving with prop mods + bubbles bc of the removal of the bubble penalties. what Exactly, in detail, am I missing here? why do you even have to bother fixing what you just broke, and why do you have to break things at all? its like making work for yourselves. is the rest of eve in such a good place, this is the best or only way to keep warranting a paycheck?

you don’t have to make things so hard, unless you just Want to.

[Sylvia_Kildare]

@Maddy_Zabbara

Is there a fear that these modules can still lead to a similar concern?

Will these modules have BPC/BPOs seeded before the update so WH players who have extended logistics chains to deal with have them available when the update hits?

Rise specifically said the new modules would have a velocity penalty to overcome the mass reduction… not sure why we couldn’t just do that with the WDFGs or a new script, but that’ll work, I guess. Just means having to swap modules when going from hole-rolling mode to PVP mode.

@Alderson_Point

A rational, reasonable and fair response. You are to be commended.

Thank you for listening.

Indeed! Seconded.

@Capqu

i realise that, but unlike goonies there is actual proof when it comes to wormholers

the wormhole csm was permanently banned from the game for nda breaking leaks to his fellow wormholers
there are numerous examples of high proflie wormholers (garmon etc) rmting out and getting permas

#NotAllWormholers

[BALKAN_KARAVAN]

Youre talking to capqu, a toxic bile-spewing excuse of a person. The chances of him trolling you are quite high, but still, never underestimate his stupidity. He might believe that.

[Zachri]

Now do some actual data mining on the ceptor drama. You’ll quickly find that the statements in the original devblog have extremely little footing.

[Perkutor_Jakuard]

Please CCP, the Claw was already nerfed, changing the alpha bonus to ROF.
An due that change obviously didn’t worked as you expected.
Before you nerf the whole combat ceptor line, please rollback the bonus change, and leave it as the Claw was.

[Scooter6976]

@Alcarne_Xero

@CCP_Rise

Wormhole space was never even meant to be habitable and now we have long-standing wormhole empires.

Even if this were true, you’d have to have been incredibly narrow minded when releasing an update with ENTIRE SYSTEMS hidden inside wormholes, to think that players wouldn’t notice the planetary objects that you could position player owned stations around.

Far more agregious is the contempt CCP has already displayed, by arrogantly ignoring promises previously made and moving toward removing the object of the issue instead of fixing it.

@CCP_Rise

We underestimated how critical this tool is and even though we would love to take a more holistic look at collapse mechanics, we understand that the existing behavior needs to be supported until that happens. We are now planning to introduce a new module in October specifically for ship mass reduction.

This is a brilliant step in the right direction. Putting your hands up and saying “we messed up, sorry we’ll fix that thing you wanted fixing instead of removing it, we had no idea it was so crucial” bridges a gap between players and developers.
If only you could go a step further and have a representative in touch with the community which you’ve antagonised… o… oh wait…

@Brisc_Rubal

I’m glad that we were able to resolve this issue for the WHers and do so before the October release.

From what I’ve seen so far, your only reliable ability here is to rile up the community to torch & pitch-fork level in a short time, by means of arrogance and self importance. Please either keep your gaping maw shut, for the sake of patching things up with the community which reviles you so much, or learn some humility.

I still think this was a staged ‘event’. showing off for the new owners

I hate to invoke the D in an eve thread … but… this is classic negotiating tactic: say something beyond belief, that would never work, piss off your counterpart, wait for rage and tbe reactions, quietly slink back abit, hand out a concession or two, and next thing you know everyones talking on topic again. its called, ‘getting them to the table’. WE the playerbase are the ones being brought to the table. the topic is an additional mod. one which is about to b rush into a soon coming patch. we have no hard details on this mod. this will not b a well tested addition to the game, prior to its introduction. we just got bait and switched, imo. lots of ppl upvoting this idea simply because its NOT the first (ridiculous) idea.

just my .02 from observation.

[Lester_oftheWeevils]

Thank you!

[Scooter6976]

will hic with this new module still be able to traverse frigate holes?

there are lots of a reasons you would want to bring the bigger tankier bubbler in the game, thru a frigate hole, even if you Do have to stop and refit once on the other side, and to come back (if you live that long).

since this dev response blog is extra short on specifics…id like to hear more assurances on things that matter. less fluff about the 9 yr old original ‘idea for wh’s’. you guys knew some would live in these things. comon’. really?