Current player generations are so just so weak, want to have everything explained, their hand held and instant gratification.
I started playing the game in the last 4 months of the beta and then went on to the game and there was exactly zero explanation for anything and i liked it. You had to figure out everything on your own. There wasn’t even fitting suggestion or explanation and certainly no simulation. You had to earn isk first and needed to buy any module you wanted to try on your ship before you even knew it was gonna fit or what it actually does. And if it didn’t fit you had to get more isk or sell the old module and try another one.
Doesn’t sound like fun maybe, but it certainly was! And this was only the fitting aspect. Everything in EVE was just unexplained and yours to figure out.
Dude, it’s a difficulty UI. It’s not that deep. lol. The dev’s put it there already. It’s just done poorly, or what I think, translated from legacy systems and needs an update. If they really wanted it like you guys all claim it to be, in the good ole past when players were ‘so strong’. They wouldn’t have difficulty there at all, it would just be a mission name.
Bet you had to walk to Yulai in the snow too, uphill! Both ways! I know you haven’t been a new player in over 10 years either. So Ill let you in on a secret. There is still mountains of stuff to learn in this game, even more so than when you were learning it actually, and that’s not even a debate. Heres your gold star: I agree the challenge of learning it is where the fun is. Friction is where the fun is. ISK earned is better than ISK given. You know what’s not fun? The game lying to you in the early stages when your just trying to undock and have fun.
I am glad you had fun figuring it out. But that was then, and this is now. Where your competing against swarms of Multiboxers and Veterans so terrified of change, they will whine about UI changes recommended by new players. Imagine trying to improve the first thing new players do in this game, mission running, and that improvement has zero bearing on gameplay itself and the “StRoNg” veterans all come crying in response. lol. And new players are the weak ones… Get outta here.
it’s the depth of this game that keeps many of us playing after 10 or more years . you’d do well , when someone gives you advice or tries to help you , not to be arrogant and dismissive . you’re having problems with some of the most basic and most predictable content , and somehow it’s the game ‘lying’ or being ‘misleading’ . consider it may be a ‘you’ problem …
This is pretty funny because abyssals, more than anything else, can vary from “This is a completely trivial run” to “This is literally impossible for you to complete in time and we’re just waiting for you to catch up to the fact that you’re already dead” within the same difficulty tier.
The depth of this game is what keeps me playing as well. It’s an uncompromising aspect to eve that I think everyone can respect. However, I think there are certain legacy aspects like how the game translates difficulty in its UI, that could use an update for new players.
I AM NOT HAVING PROBLEMS, this wasn’t a post requesting help. It’s the arrogant veterans (like yourself) who read someone criticizing an aspect of the game and you immediately think I must not understand it and just need help. I fully understand it, I use the 3rd party websites you all are about to recommend. I went through the hundreds of hours of YouTube tutorials and sifted the out of date wiki pages.
You all have completely missed the point. Lol. The game itself should provide the player better information. Plain and simple. Especially for the sake of new players because it’s a friction point that will easily lead to new people quitting. That’s what I was saying, read before you reply.
The game does not provide the player with better information, and we have watched CCP’s, and now FC’s response to this kind of request over the years and have realised the making our own tools is the only way to get the functionality right, hence why we proffer you these tools when you ask.
You can want the moon on a stick, but it doesn’t mean you will get it.
Once again, I didn’t ask for help. I was providing feedback/criticism. And that is just not true. When I looked there were 6 related posts that go back to around 2020 all complaining about the same thing, all from newer players. Each thread, you can literally go look yourself, has the same people that responded here, or similar responses of “New players just don’t understand how cool, deep and challenging our game is. Git Gud. Use this wiki” - paraphrasing obviously, but you get the point (at least I hope).
It’s the jaded veterans that have rejected this feedback, not FC CCP. They have been actively improving the new player experience and updating UI the last couple years, and literally asked for feedback on stage at fanfest.
I will never understand this logic of, “Yeah it’s poorly done in game. That’s why we made these third party tools. So stop asking for them to improve it in game.” What? Don’t you want what’s best for the game?
One definitely would assume that, and as multiple people have pointed out. We know it’s not that simple. Literally the EXACT problem I addressed in my original post. Mission difficulty at the different levels can vary widely and is inconsistent. A ship you have setup to run one L4 mission may struggle to complete a different L4 mission.
And your L4 mission runner, can it run L4 escalations? Or Class 4 WH content? What about Tier 4 Abyssals? No… which would add to the confusion. A unified, consistent difficulty scale across PvE content (in the UI, not the content itself) would be much nicer. We have now gone full circle.
I have yet to see a persuasive argument that this is “bad”, nor any compelling reason why the game should present you with a prepackaged solution to any in-game challenge. Failing at content because you’re unprepared is an experience that is meant to exist.
Repeatedly asserting that your very subjective preference is “better” isn’t an argument. That you’re not finding a lot of agreement from people is not because we’re “bitter vets” but because you are unpersuasive.
I don’t want the game to give you a prepackaged solution to a problem. This is where all of you keep going. Lol. I want the game to clearly define the problem and let the player find the solution.
You literally just said it:
“Failing at content because you’re unprepared is an experience that is meant to exist.”
I totally agree. If your unprepared, you should be punished and fail. But what if your prepared? What if you could take the time to try and make sure your ready? Shouldn’t you be rewarded?
Currently, the new player (going just off what the game presents them) will almost always be unprepared. There is no way for a new player to be ‘prepared’ with the information the game itself gives them, because the information is inconsistent and often times wrong. They can spend the time and effort thinking they are prepared for a L4 mission and still end up wrong and fail. The levels were originally designed around ship classes, they have been Level 1-4 since 2003… Only the game has seen waves of new ship classes, modules, nerfs, buffs, and balance passes that have skewed what these levels mean anymore. If you don’t understand why new players bounce off the game when they reach this point. I don’t know what to tell you. Lol.
Regardless, this is the last time I try to explain it. Lol.
Do you even read the mission briefing, where they do explain what is going on? In the previous 3 levels of missions, did you not notice that some missions are just upgraded versions? Did you not notice the damage types of NPCs? Or did you just blindly go through the missions and not really engage with it before you hit the wall you have ran into? Most missions don’t even have a warp disruption (and tend to warn you when they do), so you can also just leave after dipping into the mission.
We’ve just played long enough and seen what gets changed and what doesn’t and know when you’re wasting your breath.
I’ve never claimed this game is cool, deep or challenging, missions particularly have many issues, when I did them regularly I remember spending a lot of time cherry picking the ones worth doing, for reasons of standings or difficulty.
It is difficult to make a universal fit for all missions, and thus part of mission running is choosing the missions which you know your fit(s) can complete.
But this is also the challenge for programmers to write a system to grade the missions as which ones are easy or hard depends on your fit and how you fly, I think there’s too many variables to do it well. Which may explain why they’ve just been lumped into 4 rough levels.
The Eve Survival wiki is the best tool to work out if a mission is worth it without just running them and seeing how it goes, and then keeping your own log.
I’m not saying that this is good, it is just how it is.
Maybe theres a factor hidden somewhere in the players mentality that achieves the proper amount of being “hooked” to the game before any kind of pve perseverance can be applied.
My own story with this is when i was a new player, all the missions were pretty rough at first. The only reason i endured it was because i became pretty addicted to the game almost instantly…and the determination to finish them was off the scale.
Each level showed me what to prepare for on the next level obviously. Each of those levels took their appropriate amount of time to become efficient enough to be comfortable to move up to the next one.
Doing level 3 missions was the turning point in all this. Its when enemies really start to throw challenges at you. i spent about one year in level 3 missions in a drake…carefully observing what enemies were doing, which ones were triggers, which names were the webbers, which one would throw a stasis on me, etc etc. Also having the in game browser ( boy i miss that ) up with eve survival was extremely key to all this.
Moving to a tengu to do level 4 missions took me over a month to just research and put together…not to mention having all its skills maxed first before heading into the first level 4 mission. I continued to fund this by running 3’s until that time arrived.
I guess what im getting at here…was that nobody really showed me how to do any of it. It all just seemed like the proper way to do it. It seemed like the game was purposely set up this way. Nothing seemed out of the way, vague, or too difficult…after putting all the time and research into it all. Time was the biggest ingredient here.
I guess between the fascination of watching huge fleets of exhumers all mining at once, and the complexity of different pve missions…that i was going to be an eve player forever. It “hooked” me fierce like a shark on a hello kitty fishing pole. Im going to guess thats the biggest deal on how persevered players would/can be.
TLDR: I think players that are are intensely “hooked” to this game from the start are the ones that push through this issue with no problems.
I agree the challenge of learning it is where the fun is. Friction is where the fun is. ISK earned is better than ISK given. You know what’s not fun? The game lying to you in the early stages when your just trying to undock and have fun.