Vague Difficulty

With FCs recent focus on making things better for newer players, I figured as a new-ish player that has bounced off the game a couple times in the past I would just share one of the biggest pain points I consistently had (and still have) when playing PvE activities in EVE, and that is difficulty. NOT with how difficult things can be, but how difficulty is communicated to the player.

A couple examples:

Enforcer Agent Mission Running: The missions are broken up into levels and these act as difficulty levels in a lot of ways. Only, the missions themselves can vary widely in how difficult they actually are. I can’t tell you how many times in the early days when I would head to do a mission only to sit there for 30 minutes trying desperately to clear a room and give up frustrated because my DPS was just slightly too low, or I couldn’t tank enough damage. Even though I had successfully run 3 other missions from the same agent, with the same ship without issue. I am NOT saying that mixing in more difficult missions is the issue. I think throwing the player a curve ball here and there is fine. But giving the player some kind of indication that their current ship may not be enough, would go a long way.

Just one idea I had to solve this is the mission description page should have clearer indicators about what range you should aim for DPS and EHP wise. Maybe even tell you if your currently boarded ship fit is not recommended, borderline or recommended. I cringe that I am about to say this, but a modern example in games is gear score. I hate gear scores in games most of the time (looking at you Ubisoft), but I can’t help but feel like an EVE equivalent for ship fits when interacting with PvE content specifically could go a long way for teaching new players if their ship fits need work or not. Or stop them from wasting their time trying to complete a mission they aren’t going to be able to finish in a reasonable time.

Keep in mind that this issue gets compounded on the higher level mission agents you go. When you start running L4s and your finally messing around with battleships, the wide range of DPS/EHP these ships can have depending on skills of the player character, skills of the player themselves and fit setup can lead to people flying into missions with no clue what Level 4 even means anymore. Once again, I want to stress that the game spiking the difficulty is fine in my opinion. Not communicating that to the player is the annoying part.

Combat Anomalies:
The difficulty on these will just say ‘Level 1 / Level 2’ etc.. Meaning what exactly? Is this the same difficulty scale as the enforcer missions? Those already can vary widely, so it means nothing. It’s just a vague suggestion, and the suggestion once again is just ‘Go to the Wiki, it can tell you exactly what spawns’…

DED Site 5/10 - Hold up, did the difficulty scale just change? Or were the levels in the other parts of the game always out of 10? There are ship restrictions sure, but how do I know if my ship fit is enough. This one’s in low sec too. Doesn’t that effect difficulty?

I hope you can see how the way the game tells you about difficulty rapidly becomes confusing and inconsistent for new players trying to wrap their heads around what they are doing. This is before you even start to consider other parts of the game, like WH exploration, and the site names acting as indecipherable messes for you to Google to know ‘Am I going to die if I warp here’.

I am not sure exactly what the solution is, and if FC is already addressing this in some future update I missed, then glad to hear it. But as it stands now, I think this game needs a new unified difficulty scale that’s easier to understand and more importantly, clearly communicated.

Fly Safe o7

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Some L4 missions (as an example) you can run in a frigate or destroyer; others you need a battleship or Marauder. It really depends on the type of mission, your skillset, etc.

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There is a site called eve survival, or you can use eve wiki that breaks down which ship is best for each mission (ammo type) etc

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Great resources. Just think the game itself should do more heavy lifting on this for the new players that aren’t aware of those tools. There are already so many other parts of this game that lean on third party tools.

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Thats the thing, CCPFC always deemed this as a game for US to figure things out.

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I am confused, are you suggesting that they put a difficulty rating on all of their content, but intentionally made it vague so that their wiki pages would be more relevant?

Edit: Thought about it some more, you just recommended I go to a website where someone else has already ‘figured it out’ and tells me exactly what ship to run a mission with. Your just adding a step. What I am suggesting is a difficulty rating system that allows new players to learn by experimenting. They see in the mission screen their ship is rated as underpowered or whatever equivalent. Maybe they can hit the fitting screen, squeeze out some more DPS or EHP, or maybe whip out a different ship and see if the rating improves. This actively teaches fitting skills and widens their knowledgebase. You could even take it a step further and have bonus isk rewards for running a mission with an underpowered ship.

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Is that site, it’s excellent, although the search never works for me, but putting ‘eve survival name of mission’ into your favorite search engine normally works.

Or if you look at the uri the mission name is part of it, e.g.

https://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=GuristasStrike3

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i generally just hit the first letter of the first word of the mission and look for it there… like Enemies Abound.. starts with E.. then i scroll though the "E"s until i Find enemies abound.

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Nice! How crazy would it be if like, the game had a more reliable, accurate difficulty just on the screen already though? Like in the game, and then you could go do other content, and understand the difficulty there too. Without having to go to a wiki.

CCP chose not to do that.. FoR a ReAsOn.. they wanted us to figure things out, not hold our hands in every thing.. thats why there were easter eggs hidden throughout that other players found and made note of, like statues etc.

AI sums this up perfectly
CCP Games intentionally omits certain information in EVE Online to foster a true sandbox environment where players must figure things out for themselves, rely on community cooperation, and drive the in-game economy through their own collective knowledge

Emergent Gameplay: Rather than explicitly telling players exactly how to play, CCP builds complex systems and leaves the outcomes entirely to player actions. As executives have noted, “God doesn’t release patch notes”.
Third-Party Collaboration: By not providing every analytical tool or database in-game, CCP encourages programmers and community members to build their own tools. The official EVE Online API supports thousands of community-made applications for mapping, market tracking, and fleet coordination.
Economic Scarcity and Trade: Information asymmetry is a core mechanic. Because exact market data, blueprints, and hidden resource locations aren’t spoon-fed to users, players must establish intelligence networks, making market knowledge itself a highly valuable and tradable commodity.
Encouraging Socialization: To learn the intricacies of complex mechanics, combat tactics, and industry, players are heavily incentivized to join or interact with established player corporations and alliances

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Lmao. I get your a wiki editor man. But trying to defend the games incoherent difficulty UI/UX when playing the game with just “CCP wanted us to figure things out” in relation to something as plain and simple as displaying clearly what difficulty a piece of gameplay is, is just insane to me. lol. Especially when they are obviously are trying to tell the player the difficulty of the content people are doing already, just failing to be clear about it. And then have ChatGPT come up with an argument for you? Come on. Nothing I recommended would even impact what it’s saying anyways. You know what it would do? Help new players understand the game faster… :open_mouth:

AI sUmS tHiS uP pErFeCtLy:
Look at what a player actually has to navigate: security status (which is about gank risk, not PvE difficulty), mission levels 1-5 (which lump wildly different content together), anomaly names like “Hideout/Refuge/Den/Yard/Rally Point/Port” (a memorization test, not a difficulty scale), combat site names like “Haven” and “Forsaken Hub” (nouns that communicate nothing), wormhole classes C1-C6 (closer to a real scale, but still doesn’t tell you about Drifter responses or sleeper escalation), Abyssal tiers T0-T6 (actually good, and notably the newest content), Triglavian invasion stages, FOBs, ghost sites, incursions, capital escalations. None of these systems share a vocabulary. None of them give you a recommended ship class or fit. None of them flag “this will kill your battleship” before you warp in. The game itself just says “Level 4 Mission.” You’re flying the same ship into wildly different threat profiles and the UI gives you nothing.

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So, you basically want FC to hold your hand. That’s all you had to say…

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Maybe that would be nice, maybe it would become annoying, but it’s very unlikely to happen.

Fortunately people have taken to time to make a wiki with all the info you need, so you don’t need FC to fix their janky UX

Lmao. Nice one.

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It’s true. Great tools do exist. Just wish they could integrate some of them into the game. I think it would make a big difference. Oh well.

Player-created resources have always been far superior in EVE.

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And that would remain the case… They would still be the best shop in town for more in depth information. I am not attacking the eve wiki. lol. Hell, I have it open right now! It’s a great source. Here’s to hoping the new stuff coming with Exordium will include some better UI for new players to get involved in PvE without being mislead.

I would also just like to point out that nobody responding to this post has started playing EVE within the last 10 years…

2012 here, but I have taken a few years off (the most recent hiatus being the last year or so).

I started in 2011, but i also took a hiatus until covid

  1. There isn’t a name for the shade of Jaded that I am…
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