Vargur 1.7b , Mach 460m. And the mach is better

I see where you are coming from. I used my Marauders in PvE for one major reason - EWAR resistance. Non-Angel EWAR can be pretty brutal and DPS lost to it fairly significant.
Angel EWAR is laughable for Battleships, so Machariel does not get major drawbacks in this regard in comparison to Vargur. Angel salvage also seems to totally suck in terms of ISK, so another major advantage of a marauder is lost right here.

What Vargur does better, though:
It can run a respectable permatank(vs Angels, Serps and Guris) with MJD+MWD fitted and be very very mobile within the mission spaces, yet also fairly relaxing, offering some leeway for when you are distracted for some reason. Its effective DPS in bastion mode, when omitting drones and regarding fitted modules(TCs in particular), isn’t too far off from Machariel btw.

I showed in the graph that after 30km it’s effective DPS, without TC and without bastion, is better than mach.(40km with a TC) Just from distance ; if you are moving (and a mach should be) you are even better applied DPS since better tracking. Out of bastion.

Anderson, sir, you cherry picked your argument by ignoring the biggest difference between the ships.

If we’re talking mission running, loot and salvage is significant chunk of profitable change – especially with Meta Shield Extender prices through the roof. And in Angel space, the rats come to you.

MWD to the heart of the blob. Pop bastion. Launch a Mobile Tractor Unit. Loot and salvage until the last red blip explodes and then MWD to the next part of the mission.

The Vargur kicks the pants out of the Mach for missioning profitability that way. Except, yes, it is a brick and the Mach is joy to fly by comparison. (Can’t blame anyone for picking it for that.)

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I made a lot of data about mission running, and every time, even if loot and salvage look like a good part, it’s actually reducing the value of my time wrt LP income.

Of course if you are running for a bad corporation in a high truesec system, yes the loot+salvage will become better. But then the issue is, why do you do that ?

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Ah, masochism, mostly.

I’m getting flashbacks of arguing with Liang…

Fair disclaimer to the OP, it’s been way too long since I dug deep into LP profitability beyond the same fuzzy Fuzzwork math that anyone else can do. Anderson may have my number.

If you like your money relatively on the now side, the Varg is still a fantastic ship. I’m fine being called baised here.

It’s not now, you need to move it to sell it.
Last time I checked, over several hours, going fast brought me ± 100M/h and ±100k LP/h, so around 300M/h from LP+raw isk, then adding fast loot I was around 100 more M/h. To direct orders, for very low volume to move.

I just made a few more missions to check the salvage+ loot (with alts and friends), and the values was … well correct in salvage(something like 20M in some missions), but just the time to undock a salvage ship, salvage and come back, to make it worth I would need to do all of that in less than 3min. Good luck when you are one j away…

I think you’re making my own point, Anderson. :wink: Loot + salvage as you blast through a mission in the Vargur, and no extra undock or jump required.

Does it add up against the Mach’s speed? Hard for me to say, honestly. I don’t doubt you keep better track of isk efficiency than I do.

I’d just be incredibly curious to see what your data would be if you tried flying the Vargur to its advantages, rather than ignoring Bastion, Tractor and Salvagers on it. (MWD/MJD to blob, loot while everything nearby explodes, reposition every 60 seconds if needed, ignore remaining loot when objective is complete.)

Could be a test that’s literally worth your time, sir.

could try, not sure. I have a few spare B to test.

Theres so much to both vessels its unreal. They hit the head on PvP IMHO.

In PvE:
The Vargur is an absolute beast, the most “jack of all trades” of all the marauders.
The Mach is an absolute beast also, the King of Smash and Grab.

You can look at stats on paper, those charts are sweet indeed, but practical application is king. If it doesn’t save you an entire volley, its not better.

If you’re running permatank in every mission you’re riding the slow bus. That’s not an insult if you’re there for the scenery. The thing about tank is that both ships have a huge gank tank, and the Vargur has way more actual tank. BUT, raw DPS is trash without the utilities that allow you to apply it. So you have to put a rather expensive tank on the Vargur to get it to really shine, so that you can have enough utility slots.

The machariel price is The cost of the BPC plus mineral cost. The BPC sellers have a huge influence on the price. When Vargur was revamped the Mach had been more expensive hust the previous month.

As far as salvaging slowing you down lootwise, it depends on if you know your missions. Blitzing them is the way to make the most ISK for sure, but you need to run burner missions also then. And what you do with the loot from missions is paramount. If you melt it down and build pirate faction ships with the bulk of the items you can turn an extra 50 mil profit right there.

2 completely different ships that can do similar things.

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