Version 19.08 - General Feedback

[Brisc_Rubal]

I was telling the person who mocked up their own version of the UI that I liked the removal of dead space in their mock up, but I prefer the alphabetical system.

@Aisha_Katalen

That’s patently untrue: ship skills, shield/armor, weapons, support, industry. All nicely bundled together in groups. It’s actually quite difficult to NOT see it.

It never struck me as having any obvious order. Regardless, I don’t think the alphabetical nature of it is really that big of a deal. It’s more intuitive to more people alphabetical, but it will be a pain to vets who were used to the order before. Ultimately, it’s a subjective thing that folks either like or don’t like, and that’s fine.

@D_Kins_Cider

That gives me some hope.

We spent a good amount of time on it in our meeting today, and my comments were largely critical, and I asked for a follow up meeting with the UI team to discuss it again.

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Brisc_Rubal

We spent a good amount of time on it in our meeting today, and my comments were largely critical, and I asked for a follow up meeting with the UI team to discuss it again.

Thank you. Genuinely, thank you. Until that comment I quoted from you, it really felt like you were trying to tell us that “this ■■■■ is gravy, and you should like it.”

I understand that there’s a balance to keep in the role you have, that you potentially cannot be too publicly critical if you wish to maintain an effective dialog with CCP.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@D_Kins_Cider

Thank you. Genuinely, thank you. Until that comment I quoted from you, it really felt like you were trying to tell us that “this ■■■■ is gravy, and you should like it.”

I understand that there’s a balance to keep in the role you have, that you potentially cannot be too publicly critical if you wish to maintain an effective dialog with CCP.

What I have tried to explain to people over and over and over again is that while I have my own opinions about things, I will still represent the opinions of the player base to CCP, even if I disagree with them.

Personally, I like the new layout. I prefer it to the old one, even though I know the new one is buggy and has things that absolutely need to be fixed. That being said, I am well aware that a lot of people don’t like it, I know their reasons why, and I have passed those concerns on in multiple ways, and I have been doing that since this was put on the test server a month ago.

I’ve been doing this for three years now, so it shouldn’t come as any surprise to folks.

[D_Kins_Cider]

@QuakeGod

And new players continue to ask ten thousand times a day “How do I mine Tritanium?”…

Oh god, this.

CCP, If you want to improve the new player experience, fix the little inconsistencies. Review every one of the starter missions - all the career agent missions at least, and ensure that they’re actually consistent with the game - if the point of asking them to mine tritanium was to get them to figure out that you need to mine Veldspar and then reprocess it, then make that a little more obvious in the text that the agents present. Fix the missions that tell you that you can’t get that in your hold when in your hanger in the station is fine, etc.

[Augustus_Primus]

You could always see your full character and zoom in and move around it from different angles by using the info inquiry. (click the button at the bottom of the magnified image that says full body view.)

The new separate character and skills sheets have many MANY drawbacks.

• No option to NOT display the character, as we had before. This memory hog causes my computer to bog down and the app to crash.
• Waste of space taken by character display.
• Very limited ability to size the sheet and a lot of space wasted. Awkward lay out.
• Skills sheet does not display the amount of time needed for a skill, unless you drag it over into the skills queue – a real time waster.
• Awkward space-wasting layout in Skills sheet.
• Very limited ability to size this sheet as well.
• Cannot reduce the icons for the category buttons, as you could with the old skill sheet.
• Space left for the list of skills leaves a very small window to scroll down on my computer (no more than two items at a time vertically).
• Can only get to the bottom of the skill list if the sheet is in the full mode. Won’t display all in the floating mode.
• Can’t adjust the size of the window for the skills list.

[QuakeGod]

@Mike_Azariah What’s up with this? I thought you were all over them about the wording in the new player missions so they wouldn’t be asking the same five questions ten thousand times a day, every day, for the past ten years…

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Brisc_Rubal

Personally, I like the new layout.

I don’t mind the concept, and with some of the suggested improvements, I think it will absolutely be an advance over what we had before - for both new players and veterans. I actually like the addition of skill plans - yes, it was possible to do it before with external tools or just knowing what the skills were useful for, but it was tedious, and even as someone who’s been in the game on and off again for 10+ years, I sometimes found myself looking at a skill in my queue and thinking “Why the fsck is that even there???”

But whilst I understand the concept, the execution is abysmal. I’ve worked in the IT industry for close to 30 years now (sigh, I’m getting old), and this has to be close to the worst release I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen some shockers, let me tell you). Worse than the quality is the complete disregard for sensible feedback - as has already been noted, the majority of the current feedback matches what was already given when the code was released to sisi, and yet despite solid reasoning, examples of improvement, etc being given, CCP apparently didn’t take a single piece of the feedback onboard.

So we not only have ■■■■ design with ■■■■ coding behind it, but we also have a complete disregard for the customer.

Any one of those three would be enough, especially when they’re a repeated offence, to get people fired in any and all places of employment I’ve had in the past - and that’s under an employment law (in Australia) with very good protection for workers.

I know that people have been predicting the end of Eve since basically the day it launched. I know with every change there’s a bunch of people who threaten to throw the baby out with the bathwater and quit the game (and some possibly even follow through on that threat).

But perhaps it’s because the game has survived despite this that CCP seem to feel they can treat the customer with contempt (please, if that’s not the case, someone explain to me how we should interpret this constant failure to dish out quality or listen to feedback and tell us that we’re wrong - like the drone changes, we were wrong right, LOL, then why revert it?). And that really cannot be healthy for the game long term. It’s killed games in the past, it WILL kill Eve - eventually.

[Augustus_Primus]

The new separate character and skills sheets have many MANY drawbacks.

• No option to NOT display the character, as we had before. This memory hog causes my computer to bog down and the app to crash.
• Waste of space taken by character display.
• Very limited ability to size the sheet and a lot of space wasted. Awkward lay out.
• Skills sheet does not display the amount of time needed for a skill, unless you drag it over into the skills queue – a real time waster.
• Awkward space-wasting layout in Skills sheet.
• Very limited ability to size this sheet as well.
• Cannot reduce the icons for the category buttons, as you could with the old skill sheet.
• Space left for the list of skills leaves a very small window to scroll down on my computer (no more than two items at a time vertically).
• Can only get to the bottom of the skill list if the sheet is in the full mode. Won’t display all in the floating mode.
• Can’t adjust the size of the window for the skills list.

[QuakeGod]

“I made a mistake in only killing half of the life in the universe. The problem is that those of you who survived still remember the life you had before. So I will reduce this universe to it’s last atom and start over.” - Thanos

This is apparently the strategy that CCP is using. They aren’t going to revert it. They are going to get the new players used to this horrible UI (among other things) because they don’t know any better and don’t know what it was like before this horrible update…

[Buoytender_Bob]

Ignore advice and criticism from the CSM, Reddit, these forums under test server feedback, and a whole bunch of other channels and still release the “final” product in its current form with all its current faults and bugs.

CCP needs to reclassify the test server use from debugging and player feedback to somethings more like dump and ignore. This is beginning to look more and more like the poor devs had orders from above to make changes to accommodate some sort of plan by executive management.

[Mike_Azariah]

@QuakeGod

I thought you were all over them about the wording in the new player missions so they wouldn’t be asking the same five questions ten thousand times a day, every day, for the past ten years…

Have been. Thing is they currently have just worked on the tutorial, not the career agents. I have not given up but sometimes the ball rolls back down the hill and you have to keep pushing it back up.

m

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Mike_Azariah

Have been. Thing is they currently have just worked on the tutorial, not the career agents. I have not given up but sometimes the ball rolls back down the hill and you have to keep pushing it back up.

So what you’re saying is that rather than taking the quick win and removing some of the pain in the new player experience that really causes frustration, they’ve spent time and effort to build a new interface that’s worse than what we had before.

CCP need to get their priorities right. They need to learn the concept of “lowest hanging fruit”.

[Donovan_Alephi]

Yeah, the lack of ability to resize the windows elements (or at least to decrease the icon/text size) is absurd. And when the queue is empty it just takes up valuable room on the screen.

[Factical_Tuckwit]

Can I also add that I can’t find any way to display how many skillpoints are trained in an individual skill / how many required to level V as we used to be able to see. (other than right click / apply skill points - which only tells me to the next level of a skill anyway rather than “at a glance”)

[Bur_Kgar]

Please consider the Skill UI revert to older one option. New character sheet and skill queue is just awful for me. And I’m not the only one hating this.

[Vapor]

@Brisc_Rubal - We were all new player once. It wasn’t alphabetical and we learned where the skills were without issue. There’s also a search button. I don’t recall anyone being confused. In fact the contrary, having Spaceship Command, Navigation, Engineering Armour, Shields and so on prioritised in order over fleet support, industry and neural stuff at the other ends is so logical as those are where almost everyone builds on their core skills from.

Select your choice of ships. Improve their performance through navigation, it’s capability through engineering, add defences with armour and shields, then add offensive with turrets and missiles and so on.

Now it starts: Armour, Corporation Management, Drones …

Which is absolutely nonsense.

Putting so much emphasis on an alphabetical order making things easier is not correct, it’s now not in a logical order for how your skills generally develop as you learn to fly ships.

Having the option to reshuffle / toggle them either way, would of course be the answer.

You are allowed to realise you’ve overlooked something and made a mistake Brisc, you can back down when you see the logic, there is no shame or political blowback, actually more respect if anything.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Vapor

You are allowed to realise you’ve overlooked something and made a mistake Brisc, you can back down when you see the logic, there is no shame or political blowback, actually more respect if anything.

Thanks for letting me know I’m allowed to do this.

Unfortunately, despite your permission, I still prefer alphabetical order, and I expect a new player with no experience in EVE will not care one way or the other.

[Lara_Agnon]

Like all of the new UI stuff the introduced, it’s just crap. In this case you can disable the display on top row of info panel and never see it again.

use journal for all mission specific info. thats correct and won’t let you wonder how you put a ship into your cargo hold, find a black box, get a gas key, and other silly bs

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Brisc_Rubal

I was telling the person who mocked up their own version of the UI that I liked the removal of dead space in their mock up

I think you should stick to just liking CCPs decisions blindly, you clearly dont really remember what youve said anymore.

Or, more likely, dont care.

[Lara_Agnon]

@D_Kins_Cider

CCP, If you want to improve the new player experience, fix the little inconsistencies. Review every one of the starter missions - all the career agent missions at least, and ensure that they’re actually consistent with the game - if the point of asking them to mine tritanium was to get them to figure out that you need to mine Veldspar and then reprocess it, then make that a little more obvious in the text that the agents present. Fix the missions that tell you that you can’t get that in your hold when in your hanger in the station is fine, etc.

The thing is - all missions are perfectly ok. Nothing to review here. I, personally, would like to see the explanations (Aura) back they deleted with one patch.

The actual problem is the info panel - missions. it has nothing to do with the actual missions, you can safely close it alltogether without losing any functionality. it is just annoying, takes a lot of screen real estate and displays all the wrong information.