Visual effect idea

No…the coriolis force has nothing whatever to do with it. Your spinning space station in the video is not analogous to the round being fired from an orbiting craft, because the only way the orbiting craft is going to hit the target in the center is to totally cancel out the tangential vector. There thus is no longer any sideways motion. This is done by applying a large vector in the opposite direction to the motion of the orbiting craft. Both the firing craft and any external observers would see the round travel in a straight line from the point of firing to the orbited craft. Nobody observes any curves…because the tangential vector is cancelled out.

Ok, I think I can visualize and understand your point.

Then again, I don’t see why the round being fired from the orbiting craft is not analogous to the ball being thrown inwards in the spinning space station. Both scenarios involve the thrower orbiting the target at a constant angular speed at a constant distance and throwing the object at a constant initial velocity.

The orbiting craft has to cancel out its orbital motion for the round…or the round would never hit the target as there is no force acting on the round after it leaves the gun. If any lateral motion still exists, the round will not hit the target but go off to one side. It won’t spiral in…there is no force making it do so.

So the shot has to be fired with a direction and speed such that the lateral orbital motion is completely cancelled out. Because there is no longer any lateral motion…there is no longer any coriolis force.

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Ah, I see now!

If I may, I’d like to revisit this to prove my point. I made a video in Kerbal Space Program demonstrating the effect I was talking about. It’s at Proving a Point (Demonstrating the Coriolis Effect) - YouTube

That’s video was a lot of effort when all you had to do was link WW2 gun cam footage. Lots of magic bendy bullets to look at there.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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I think it was worth it, though :slight_smile:

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its simulation of what happens with ball :face_with_peeking_eye:
Click on the field inside station on the left to thrown balls. Try to hit the center and press mouse button continuosly.

Simulating situations as they happen in EVE is simple, but look nothing like in EVE if the travel route for projectile is really long, like 20 km or more, if the travel speed is the same as in real life, 2km/s. The hit doesnt happen in instant. :see_no_evil:

Speed of projectile would have to be more than 100 km per second. And then there is no noticable effect of bendy then, when you shoot at the target in center. Its smaller effect if speed is bigger.

Turrets of all types would have to make projectile go faster than 100km/s. In EVE with current graphical effect its something like that.

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The fireworks curves away, but that is not the coriolis effect. The coriolis effect is where there appears to be a ‘force’ operating that brings the projectile back to your orbit…which would for example be the case if you fired the projectile ahead of you at a 45 degree angle, the projectile would ( at certain speeds ) appear to move away from you then appear to curve back towards you and in fact you could even hit your own ship if the speed was right.

All you are observing is that you are yourself on a curved orbit. And in fact you are not really even being kept in that orbit by centrifugal force as in the case of the rotating space station but by your thrusters constantly changing your direction. It is thus ( unlike with the space station ) purely arbitrary that you are pointing towards the center of your orbit. You could as well point your craft towards the speeding projectile on its course and then you would see no curvature at all.

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The trouble is that the situation really is not analogous to a rotating space station. In the rotating space station the centrifugal force keeps the person always vertically head upwards towards the center. The orbiting space craft is not being kept in orbit by centrifugal force but by application of thrusters, which means there is absolutely no reason ( if it has enough thrusters all over ) why the direction of view cannot be some other direction.

Well, in reality if one uses thrusters right, its effects on bodies attached or contained are no different than with centrifugal force. Inertia works the same if you use thrusters or if you are attached by an arm to a pivot point. Everything attached will be experiencing the same forces, only design dictates if elements are stretching or compressing. Or if it stays inside or outside the spacecraft.

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Yeah, collisions and bumping in EVE is an object of meme. The video below is just a monument to all the issues referred to the modern special effects, visual effects, storyline ideas. You’ll enjoy it!

First time funny bumping mechanic, as I remember, I saw at a POS base while exploring a WH. A player in a ship scoured around those cans for a while and suddenly he was bumped away at a speed of light almost. Like, what a hek? It’s some sort of a bug or some cheating. Afterwards I found that while at a POS, if you change the access password, you get bumped away. I saw it in some EVE videos afterwards. So, this is widely used in different scenarios.

If you take it seriously, you can manage your ship positioning and collisions in a normal way for all scenarios by using analytic geometry and vector fields. You can enable collisions, or you can disable them smoothly. I worked on a similar project recently. Here’s a generic example of it as an idea:

https://codepen.io/soulwire/pen/DdGRYG

https://codepen.io/Zaku/pen/AobWbm

There’s no need to implement the physics effect to a ship like it is near a massive Black Hole.

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Wow! This topic turned into scientific discussion. I see what you mean. There are nuances on how to interpret the Coriolis effect from different points of view (usually it is used on Earth phenomena). I need to check some charts to explain the difference between your case and the EVE one. One of the best video which explains what’s going on is this one:

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you only have that inter-atmosphere due to earth’s rotation (deflection to left or right depending if n. or s. hemosphere). You don’t have that in space.

You have to take into account that there is different speed of surface across the earth, like in the movie. Its somewhat hard to imagine as human mind is more used to trajectories of a thrown rock, not calculating trajectories of rockets flying far away past horizon.

No. A ship operating under thrusters is not compelled to point in a particular direction. Neither is a ship attached at the end of a tether. That is why the comparison to the inside of a space station is not valid. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Never stated that. But it can point particular direction anyway. Thrusters can do all sort of things to a ship. Rotate, change direction, point and stay pointed etc. All sorts of movement across all planes.

@Kaizen_Trader_Oramara

Firstly, long story short, the Coriolis force effect is a particular case of mechanical movement in non-inertial observational frames which are rotating around a fixed axis only. A special case of Newtonian mechanics and it’s a fictitious force as a centrifugal force. A non-inertial frame can be an accelerating elevator or a train wagon for example, but there’s no Coriolis effect. The rotating system causes addition Coriolis acceleration to an object, due to tangential and radial accelerations:
ac = 2(𝜔×v)
𝜔 - is a vector oriented along rotating axis (counter-clockwise direction is positive), v - is the velocity of the object relative to the rotating reference frame. So, in the video above (a centrifuge is rotating clockwise), if the object velocity is oriented towards the rotating axis (as projectile direction in EVE) then the ac direction is the same as tangential speed of the centrifuge (our ship). This causes a ballistic trajectory in a non-inertial frame. The same on Earth. If we move along the orbiting axis (towards the North or South pole), due to the spherical shape of the Earth, our radial velocity projection will cause ac. As the formula shows, the Coriolis effect depends on the object’s speed and rotation frequency. Even small ac can cause huge ballistic effects if the travel distance is big and vice versa.

I have to point at basic vector operations for further explanations (Figure-1). The sum of two vectors v and u is w = u + v. Final vector is defined visually by the parallelogram rule, even if both vectors are orthogonal. And the vector to the right represents a vector’s projection on the Ox axis. For any vector, we can find its projections in different directions via cos(𝛂).

Figure-1

In Figure-2 below is an EVE scenario when a ship A is orbiting a static target O in a counter-clockwise direction. Let’s assume that the Coriolis effect is not taken into consideration. Then we have to take into consideration only the simple kinematics of objects. Therefore, based on the parallelogram rule explained in Figure-1, to hit the target O, the summary vector of a projectile u in free fly should be oriented radially towards O. To get this we have to compensate for the tangential ship velocity via projection of projectile speed, oriented in the opposite direction (where u is the turret direction). So, tan(𝛼) can be considered as the turret tracking.

Figure-2

Laser turrets. For laser beams we should take into consideration the relativistic mechanics and consider the beam speed courses at the light speed of 300,000 km/s. Therefore, in our model, where ships are orbiting at range 5 - 500 km and speed 1-5 km/s, the light will hit them instantly in a straight line. We can ignore our ship speed and the tracking is formal just for optical focusing. As is displayed in Figure-2 (on the right). Based on relativistic mechanics, the speed of ships will become important when they’ll be at a range 300,000 km or above, because light needs 1 second to pass that distance. In this case the signature of the target matters.

Projectile and Hybrid turrets. Their ammo speed is way less than beam speed but is way higher than ships speed. In this scenario we can take into consideration the Coriolis effect, but it’s so insignificant that we can ignore it at all just to save CPU resources. The shot and hit is just a single mathematical equation computed once per tick by the server. It will add an additional parameter to the general hit formula. The client should render a straight line as it does (aka the projectile will hit the target while your ship is doing an angle 00 1’ 0’’).

Missiles. It’s funny, but only missiles will create the effect you requested. And this effect isn’t created due to the Coriolis effect, but as a result of reactive thrusters effect. As any self-aligned missile is always oriented towards the target with a constant speed, it will create a trajectory almost opposite to the trajectory caused by the Coriolis effect (Figure-3). The rocket will cause a ballistic trajectory in an inertial frame also. Vectors u1, u2, u3 and u4 have the same lengths but different directions. From point O to point F the summary speed is formed by ship speed v and rocket speed u. The ship’s speed is partially compensated with vertical projection of rocket speed in point M. The ship’s velocity is completely compensated by the rocket and it is flying in the opposite direction in point F. Beginning from point F, the horizontal and vertical speed projections are formed only by the rocket speed vector.

Figure -3

And here’s an in game example:

Cross is the fire position. The rockets are almost at a position where they’ll compensate for the ship speed and their speed will be parallel to the target painter beam.

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Thank you so much for the visual explanations!!!