VNI nerf


(Dark Engraver) #1

I know it’s an extremely popular hull for pve but the VNI currently outshines the dominix and that doesn’t feel right balance wise.
There are several ways to take it down a notch:remove 1 medium slot or remove 25mb from it’s bandwith or reduce powergrid or reduce capacitor/shield stats.
A slight nerf for the vni would bring up diversity in the range of cheap pve hulls aswell as cuting down on ‘afk ratting’.


(Scipio Artelius) #2

-1

It’s fine. It’s not OP in any role and there are other great ships around in the pirate cruiser range (eg. Gila).


(Dark Engraver) #3

No in fact it isn’t fine the Gila lost a lowslot for its part so please don’t use it as an example.


(Scipio Artelius) #4

December 2015. Over 2 years ago, and it is still a strong ship in its class.

You might not like that, but just asking for the Gila not to be mentioned won’t have any effect on how good the ship is.

You could tone down the VNI and it still won’t improve the Domi by comparison. The Domi is just too slow. RR Domi’s are great in a PVP role, but aside from that, nerfing the VNI still won’t create the “right balance”.

If you want the balance between the VNI and domi changed, suggest buffs to the Domi. Not everything in the game needs to be nerfed.


(Dark Engraver) #5

As another example currently dronewise a VNI will outdps the Gila and pve wise will outperform a Gila in anomalies such as havens/hubs come to think of it the VNI will outperform alot of ships even larger than it in that situation,how can an issue here not be apparent?
However the dominix does not need a buff and simply adding more buffs to maintain a slightly out of balance ship where it is isn’t a smart approach.Also any of the tiny tweaks I suggested won’t completely cripple the ship.


(Scipio Artelius) #6

Why the artificial limit on “in terms of drones”?

Just to make your argument look legit?

The Gila out DPS’s the VNI, because you can also use missiles. That also helps save time, because you can hit the small ships easily with rapid lights and set the drones off against larger targets from he start.

A VNI is somewhere around 600 DPS total (and drones can be killed, reducing the DPS), where the Gila has >700 DPS (my fit runs 773 DPS from what PyFA is telling me at the moment).


(Dark Engraver) #7

And where does it say a vni can’t fit turrets aswel?Fact of the matter is we have a cheap throwaway navy cruiser coming even with a strong pirate cruiser.
Even worse it comes ahead of ships 1-2 classes above it


(Scipio Artelius) #8

It can. I didn’t suggest a limit on only drone damage. You did, and it was incorrect.

If you think the DPS on the VNI is so much better than the other ships in its class, show us the actual data.

Add to the Gila, Orthrus, Phantasm and to a lesser degree, the Cynabal, Stratios and Vigilant.

It’s a strong class of ships all around, providing good value for new players as well as veterans.


(elitatwo) #9

Ha! You haven’t seen the Hunter’s Ballistic Control Unit.

Fit those on a Gila and then tell me how much the Vexor Navy Issue performs…


(Wanda Fayne) #10

I think it’s really the 100mn fit that makes the VNI as successful as it is for PvE. With a 10mn it is too slow, and a 50mn MWD balloon can’t sig-tank enough. Add a large drone bay and nearly afk-able gameplay… voila, FOTM.

Scip is on point that this ship class is well stocked with good, useful ships. The VNI is just enjoying that PvE niche it fills better than the rest.


(Trespasser) #11

i think they need to just get rid of AFK ratting period.


(elitatwo) #12

The Vexor is not the only ship that can fit one but the other ones require you to be at the keyboard.


(Old Pervert) #13

Any drone cruiser can be 100MN fit, and rat accordingly.

The Gila you can be semi-afk, using FOF missiles. The Stratios you just won’t be using guns, DPS is lower than a VNI but hey you can fit a covops cloak so that’s more than an acceptable tradeoff.

■■■■, even a Proteus can be fit into a 100MN drone boat to rat with. If you wanna get really crazy, throw a 100mn on a curse… your ticks will be ■■■■, but you can still do it no problem.

You don’t need to nerf the VNI. You need to nerf oversized prop mods. Assuming that a nerf is indeed warranted.

Or you could buff the Domi, as battleships in general are quite lackluster at the moment. I’d much rather see battleships get buffed, myself.


(Wanda Fayne) #14

It’s not the 100mn fit, it is how drone aggro works that allows the afk play.
You can’t do that with turrets or launchers.
Ever.


(Daichi Yamato) #15

Remind yourself how many effective turrets the vni has.


(Old Pervert) #16

FOF missiles.

I’d argue you’ll need the same level of attention for drone ratting as you do for FOF launchers. Where you occasionally need to cycle your launchers after reloads, drones will occasionally need to be told to attack rats that are only yellow-boxing. Additionally, rats aggroing drones now makes it much more important to at least monitor the situation and direct drones when they’re getting attacked by frigates.


(Wanda Fayne) #17

FTFY…

Also, for under 100M isk fitted you can afford to afk the VNI and lose some drones. You have the bay to fit spares, and the whole ship is literally disposable for the income you make.

I see your argument but the cost/efficiency ratio of any other ship just don’t compare at all. The ships you mention will not have the same damage for anywhere near the price (you need roughly 300% more expensive ship). Only the Ishtar could replace the VNI in this role, and who would pony up way more investment for the same return.


(Old Pervert) #18

I don’t disagree. But consider what happens if you nerf 100mn fits. 100% chance that it’ll eventually get webbed (if 100mn gets nerfed enough) without managing your targets and killing frigates first. You get webbed, you’re toast.

It may be now that these ships pay for themselves quickly, but when they’re dying a whole lot faster because they can’t speed tank the frigates, well, now that’s a different story.

This way you don’t have to mess with a weapon system that an extraordinary number of ships depend on, you just have to mess with the speed and agility of a cruiser with an oversized prop mod. The impact is quite a bit lower because it literally only affects cruisers, and even then only cruisers with oversized props.

You could just remove the “aggressive” behaviour of drones and leave them on passive, but I have to imagine that CCP would have considered that years ago and decided to keep it. I don’t know their reasoning.


(Wanda Fayne) #19

Why should 100mn PvP fits be nerfed? They aren’t the problem here. The VNI is the problem.


(Daichi Yamato) #20

Errr well…