War Journal: Triglavian Collective

I have taken some time before replying to your post, to avoid a purely emotional response. Now I will clarify. When I say that the Amarrian faith was not enough for many, I do not refer to those who have died. If their faith gave them peace in death, so be it. I refer instead to those living, or having lived, under the Faith and committed varying degrees of atrocities despite moral guidelines and commands. I also refer to some who grew up in the Faith but have seen these atrocities, or been faced with other trials, only to be forsaken by both your God and His supposed People despite following the ethical and moral rules.

Your arguments are well thought out, but in the end they are purely semantic. What comfort would knowing these things be to one who has been forced from their home, returning years or even months later to see not only the structures but also the plants, the animals, the very sky have all become some strange and twisted abomination of the land they loved?

Oh, probably none. But it was not meant to be reassuring.

Things change, most people are not happy by it, lots of suffering involved in the process.

Just saying it is not “the” end. That might be reassuring and bring some comfort.

There are a lot of people that deal with this right now, some of them fought and some are still fighting to make their ancestral homes “theirs” again.

Caldari Prime ist not the same after all that happened (specially after titan pieces crashed), that does not mean people do not want it as it is now. Several other planets are being fought over even if they are changed by all the warfare going on.

The end of a world is not the end of the world. The Caldari moved, some cicles end and new ones begins.

Not that change comes easy or lightly.

As i have confidence in your reading and reasoning capacities, and as i explained in the post prior to yours what i was refering to by this sentence, i will just invite you to re-read that since there are no reports of significant/catastrophic changes, the affirmation that there are no possible paths of mutation at the planets affected by the current changes is not how natural selection works.

That doesn’t make it right, and in the context of this thread it sounds like you, and others, are making excuses for the Collective’s actions, or attempting to rationalize away the very real effects by adopting some lofty “more enlightened” long term view.

Personally, i do not work with the concepts of “right” and “wrong”, some say “Might is right”, there are a lot of opinions around these words, it is confusing sometimes for me.

For me at least, started as a “i wanna see what happens”, and so far i did not see thaaaaaaaaaaat many changes. (It is quite a view what happened to the stars and i am very fond of purple, but ground troops invading is nothing new, Factional Warfare has been doing this back and forth game for some time).

I would prefer if things happened in a more… controled way (Leasing of low/unhabited territory, diplomatic agreements, technology transfer) but fear of the unknown tends to prevail and trigger a lot of evolutionary biological mechanisms and violent responses, perpetuating a destructive cycle.

I remain observing, but some things are harder to watch than others (what is happening to the Caldari for me is… vexing)

I see no reason to make excuses for others, nor see what that would change on their capacity to do what they inted to do.

That i agree with (mostly).

If you think about 10-15 billion years in the future, most if not all of the current stars will probably be in another form that does not resemble the current one. The issues, conflicts, aspirations and dreams from today will be either forgotten or will not exist if there are not people to create these things.

The future is an illusion

The present? Well, there are people living, and with their lives they interact with reality as they see fit and a lot of stuff is going on. There are people shooting triglavians, shooting endecom, shooting everyone, shooting nobody and lots and lots of other things.

It is what it is, a result of what the interactions arranged so far.

Sometimes i like to watch. Sometimes i like to get to know others perspectives. Sometimes i like to get at the IGS and talk to people, argue, exchange words, lurk, talk a lot, talk very little.

You do what you like. (Or don’t)

For now, i will savour further updates of the esteemed chronicler.

I am simultaneously sad for and envious of you. Conscience is both a compass and a burden.

“Hi! I’m Jark, and I’m spending the day not having my plasmic guts ripped out with some kind of weird entropic disintegrator/harvesting array! I might personally be indifferent about this because actually I’m just a giant ball of ongoing thermonuclear reaction, but apparently at least some of the apes in my gravity well are happy about it.”

Yes, it is my happy duty to report that the Triglavian invasion at Jark did not end with a probably-irrevocable calamity! Sure, it’s in Amarr space and the navy here’s represented itself really well, but it’s along a major trade route and frankly losing it would have been kind of a disaster? So naturally the kybernauts apparently wanted it bad.

They don’t get it. That’s something worth celebrating.

We might have started just a little early though? Like, with hostiles still on grid…

Well, no harm done I guess. Okay, a lot of harm done but not to us.

GODS I needed that feeling! (haven’t been sleeping so well if i’m honest)

Anyway … a couple of things …

So, I got that shot of a Triglavian werpost at Raravoss, before. Here’s EDENCOM’s answer, the “gunstar.”

I guess EDENCOM thought artillery worked pretty well for this stuff, too.

Here’s what EDENCOM spent the last 12 hours or so getting constructed while we were battling our new would-be overlords:

The stellar observatory unit. Apparently it’s kind of a sentry against further attemped manipulation of the star, as well as a coordination center for systemwide response if the Collective tries again.

Hm. It’s big enough to be a little hard to get a good picture of.

… I don’t like any of these. Oh well; hopefully I’ll get another few chances.

Anyway! Lots more work to do, but I think right now I’m going to go find a little food or something. It’s been a long couple of days.

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I am pleased to have contributed to the defence of Jark.

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During the last week or so I’ve been working a little bit with ARC, going into (lightly) Triglavian-occupied space and giving them a poke to see how things go.

Typically, “violently.”

Triglavian wereposts (“Steve” or “Jeff,” I think, to their friends? Capsuleer humor is weird) are a pretty common feature; they’re basically super-fast-locking, fast-tracking turret arrays. They have a little in common with gate defense turrets, including impressive range, only they shoot on sight and they don’t hesitate to fire on pods. Also, they each seem to like picking two targets and dividing their attention between them, though sometimes they’ll pick the same person twice.

In places where the Triglavians have scored a “minor victory” and are busy looting the place (or something), they seem to get deployed in pairs.

This is bad: not only do they cover one another; they also each, independently, have their own rapid-response defense fleet. If both werposts are attacked (like, at all-- like, a single navy frigate spends a few seconds shooting the wrong werpost), both fleets respond. Hairiness ensues.

They’re totally survivable, but you probably want a pretty heavy fleet with logistics support; nothing the disintegrators will chew through too fast.

They go up pretty spectacularly, too. I’m not sure why, maybe something about the relatively open reactor structure?

Pretty dramatic, though I guess I did have the drone in close. Maybe not “evaporating singularity” dramatic, though? … hm.

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Steve will remember that

I like your humor despite the bleak subject matter.

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This conflict … I’ve started to take it a little personally.

I used to really love filament diving, you know? Plunging into Triglavian space to see what games they wanted to play. I wouldn’t say I approved, exactly, but there was a little … admiration … there. Even after they began to appear in K-space, challenging us at home, it still felt different from a normal war: more like a game than a simple, brutal taking of resources by force.

What changed? Maybe partly it’s the intensity, the speed of the thing: fortress or final liminality in a matter of maybe 24 hours.

Maybe it’s that this has started to feel so much less like a contest and so much more like a robbery.

Of course they need resources like anyone else. But until now it didn’t seem, I guess, like they’d feel like they could take the prize until they actually won?

Instead of, you know …

… harvesting our stars before they’ve even finished moving in.

Maybe partly it’s that the Triglavians have started keeping personal score pilot by pilot, and telling us about it. They’re not happy with me. They’re probably even less happy with Cpt. Elkin. That strange playfulness, the lightness with which they seemed to take victory or loss, is gone. I guess we’re probably “poshlost,” now.

Well, the feeling’s mutual.

So.

Will he really? I hope so.

I hope he remembers every.

Single.

Time.

And I hope it hurts.

I really do.

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We have reach 10 final liminality system

If you’re going to betray almost everybody you ever met, you could at least try to see what your new masters care about, Mr. Kybernaut. Ten isn’t even a multiple of three. 9 (3^2) was probably more important to your masters. Also I gather they gave you sort of a shopping list. They didn’t seem too happy at last review.

They might really care a lot when you get to 27 (3^3) final liminalities, but maybe not if their strategic objectives haven’t been met?

Until then, I wonder when Cpt. Elkin’s next hunting fleet is. “Steve” isn’t the only one who’s earned a little pain.

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Not evrything need to be multiple of 3

Sure, but if you’re still putting your announcement-worthy “significant progress” marks in base-10, you might be on the wrong side, Mr. Kybernaut. Triglavian society is going to take some getting used to. You might as well get started.

Unless you just came for the toys, in which case you should maybe ask yourself what happens when the Triglavians decide you’re not conforming adequately.

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So …

I wasn’t going to write anything about Arshat until Niarja was decided, one way or the other.

Well, it’s decided. And, I don’t feel all that much like writing about Arshat. I will a little anyway.

A system clawed back out of liminality: that’s not nothing. It’s pretty good actually, a first. Yaaay.

Niarja, though.

In addition to the usual (HORRIBLE) effects of final liminality, the path to Jita’s a lot longer today than it was yesterday. At least from Amarr. What this means, practically, remains to be seen. My guess is it’ll weaken the market at Jita and strengthen Amarr. The trade route between the two is probably about to become as profitable as it is long. (It wasn’t awful, profit-wise, to begin with.) Maybe other ports of call will grow stronger along the way.

Other effects … I guess we’ll see.

Arrendis says Goonswarm backed liminality in Niarja for the sake of severing hostile supply lines. I believe that’s probably true. She probably knows better than I do how much of an effect that had, or didn’t. She also probably knows at least as well as I do what the consequences are going to be, short and long-term-- what was traded for that advantage.

I guess we all have some new realities to adjust to.

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You must thanks TEST with their fake proclamation on “we will support edencome”
They basicaly decide the fate of the system

The spillover of the nullsec war into highsec might indeed have decided Niarja’s fate. I don’t think for an instant that it was TEST’s declaration that caused such a thing, though. Goonswarm’s more than good enough to figure out if a certain system’s important to a rival’s logistics.

I do take TEST’s declaration as a bit of a suggestion that their earlier support for the Collective wasn’t a principled one. But, really, was it a matter of principle beyond “smash the status quo” for any of you people? In terms of what it actually represents (other than a society that seems to have literally developed in a hellish netherworld), the Collective’s a complete unknown.

You literally don’t know what you’re fighting for.

I am just happy to make history for once,
If it was good or bad ?
Who knows ? i will let the future students decide that.

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Oh, pilot. As a general rule, if the answer to the question, “Does this course of action mean betraying nearly everybody I’ve ever met?” is, “Yes!” … maybe you should rethink that course?

I don’t think history’s going to wait to pass judgment in a case like that.