Wardec infinite rehash

[Kohada_Koheiji]

Thanks for the video.

I like this one better.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Kohada_Koheiji

fairly

What is this fairly that you speak of?

Eve is not fair, never has been. Underhanded, devious, nefarious and downright evil acts are allowed, what makes you think fairness has any power here, or even exists as a concept?

Also Concord is reactive not proactive, it’s not there to provide protection for anybody, it’s there to provide retribution for anybody that breaks the single law it enforces.

[Avaelica_Kuershin]

@Linus_Gorp

I’d inevitably have to talk about AFK cloakers and that would bring up all the angry feelings about morons and CCP. So I wouldn’t insult you personally, but I’d throw a lot of bad words around.

Oh right, we don’t want to derail this thread further.
I too have no patience for those who whine about unseen hostiles who may, or may not be, afk.

[Kohada_Koheiji]

We should be fair with players until they have around 12M SP. Any less, and they just aren’t ready for this ■■■■.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Kohada_Koheiji

I’m annoyed because all of our recruits, ‘snowflakes’ that one of you mentioned, are so easily dissuaded. Because of wardec mechanics. I can’t make anything, if I don’t have anything to work with.

Wardec makes sure we don’t have anything to work with.

That’s a common perception, but there are other perceptions that are just as real for the people that use them.

It is easy to have the exact opposite view - wardecs are necessary, but they don’t bother us in the slightest and even our new players survive just fine.

It’s not about the wardec mechanics. It’s totally about how you respond to the risk they bring.

Don’t focus on the mechanics. Focus on the risk and figure out what you can do to control that risk. If you do that, you’ll be in a great position to teach others and help new players be prepared, no matter where they end up.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Why?

Isolating newbies from the overall sandbox just means that it hurts more when they enter it proper.

CCP believe it also hurts retention.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Kohada_Koheiji

We should be fair with players until they have around 12M SP. Any less, and they just aren’t ready for this ■■■■.

Wut? No. This could easily be abused.

And how is treating everyone the same not fair?

[Rin_Vocaloid2]

Again, @Ramona_McCandless makes a good point.

I am a loner in high-sec. I have stayed in NPC corps for a very long time now but over time it has made me bland and less skilled in pvp than I expected. So I am now doing this thing where I go into low-sec in a frigate (just frigates) and rat. I keep on ratting until I run into someone who picks up the wrecks on D-Scam. I set my ship up for pvp only. Hell, I always set up my ships for pvp. Even my 750 million ISK Orca is setup for survival mode rather than mining yield.

But anyways, I still lose ships but every lose is minimal in terms of ISK and I learn from each lose. Did I orbit the wrong way? Did I not account for transversals? Did I not load the right ammo? Was I out of optimal range? Was the ship I was engaging too powerful for the frigate I’m flying? etc.

I am even doing this other thing now where I go into my alt and go into low-sec using only the free ships I got from the career agents and the modules I gathered from npc wrecks to fit my ship for pvp. This way I can make ISK without having to spend any on a new ship every time.

[Ralph_King-Griffin]

Iv seen a newbro solo a pvp faction fit kronos.
Newbros are just as capable as vets given a good mentor

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Kohada_Koheiji

We should be fair with players until they have around 12M SP. Any less, and they just aren’t ready for this ■■■■.

SP have nothing to do with it. Maintaining active, enjoyable play in highsec while at war isn’t something your character provides. It comes totally from the player.

So it shouldn’t matter whether you have 400K SP or 140 million SP, it’s how you play the game, not the character you’re playing with.

[Ramona_McCandless]

I have a man in my corp with 3m SP who started playing last month.

He lives in a WH and does sites and nips to High Sec for PvE combat and events.

Id prefer he PvP’d but that is how he chose to train.

He came straight over from WoW and GW

He loves it.

[Linus_Gorp]

http://www.pcgamer.com/murder-incorporated-ten-months-of-deception-for-one-kill-in-eve-online/

EVE needs more of this. Everything is about instant gratification these days. Everyone wants everything and they want it now without working for it. Where’s the fun / reward in that

[Ramona_McCandless]

Took me a year to infiltrate, liquidate and dissolve an Alliance I took a dislike to.

That was my first ever set goal

[Linus_Gorp]

I was active in Bombers Bar from almost the very beginning and ■■■■■■ them over last year after they gave me the shaft. No regrets

[Kohada_Koheiji]

@Teckos_Pech

And how is treating everyone the same not fair?

Do you know anyone on EBT? Welfare? Housing assitance? Low income energy for heating in cold climates?

We have, in society, programs for equalizing people. They’re not ‘fair,’ in that the rich are not eligible. But, as a society, we have agreed that they are fair, because we have decided to recognize the inherent human worth of each person, and grant them individual benefits to bring them up to a bare standard of existence.

Concord is like police. Do you really advocate that we have no standards, no protections, no civilization? Because a wardec basically does this - it bribes the police to ignore crime!

[yellow_parasol]

what strikes me as funny is how he takes 1984 and applies it 180 degree backwards…

[Linus_Gorp]

@Kohada_Koheiji

Do you know anyone on EBT? Welfare? Housing assitance? Low income energy for heating in cold climates?

We have, in society, programs for equalizing people. They’re not ‘fair,’ in that the rich are not eligible. But, as a society, we have agreed that they are fair, because we have decided to recognize the inherent human worth of each person, and grant them individual benefits to bring them up to a bare standard of existence.

EVE is not real life, it’s a PvP sandbox. Ruining another persons’ day is a advertised feature of that sandbox.

But if you want to go down that road, these programs are not given to you by nature, but by other humans. Applied to EVE this means other players since all CCP does is provide the playing ground (nature), not the players (humans).

So essentially your “Welfare, Housing assistance, …” is EVE University…

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Kohada_Koheiji

They’re not ‘fair,’ in that the rich are not eligible.

That’s exactly what makes them fair.

It doesnt make them equal.

[Dracvlad]

@Kohada_Koheiji

Then I am clearly playing wrong. How should I motivate a new group of players?

Telling them, ‘by joining us, you will be executed by those in faction and T2 ships, and you will never win, until a year has passed,’ doesn’t seem like a selling point.

Any advice? What should I say? I’m not good at PR like CCP Falcon.

I think what you have to do is become a right royal pain in the butt to the war deckers, they do use fast lockers and stuff and you can if you play smart pick them off, it is not easy, but the fun is setting up to do it. You will fail but at some point you will do it and that success is part of your development. Also take the time to watch and learn, see what they do, analyse them and see the tricks they pull, learn. That is how you get good at Eve.

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Kohada_Koheiji

Concord is like police. Do you really advocate that we have no standards, no protections, no civilization? Because a wardec basically does this - it bribes the police to ignore crime!

CONCORD is not like the police.

Faction Police are the police.

And Capsuleers dont have to do what FacPo say. At all.

CONCORD is more like pigeon spikes; they arent there to protect the building, they are there to scare the pigeons.