Wardecs are not the problem

That’s not a stake in the game. That’s a target option.

No, currently the ability to declare war does not come with the risk that someone will declare war on you. This is why 1 man corp war spam is an issue. I declare war, someone declares war in return, I move to another corp and declare war again until I am not getting people I don’t want in the war against me. There’s no risk to declare war. Only defenders have risk.

So you’re in favor of an anchored object rather than a citadel to ignore structures such as citadels. I’ll agree to that. An object like a Moble Depo which takes time to down the shields, a break and more to down the armor, and another break with more to down the structure. This gives attackers plenty of time to attack and an incentive to attack and defend the object. It also puts that risk back in for attackers.

We already have structure spam. Eiffel towers in null sec and a greeting outside Jita. That wouldn’t change.

So a specific function like war does not have traction, but a place to dock your ship does not? Placing a point to dock in an area you are often is merely convenience at a risk that it might get targeted by another corp. You can always travel a system or two in High Sec to find a location to dock up at. Blowing up ships in null sec is easily available without penalty. Blowing up ships in low sec comes with a security standing penalty. Ganking ships in high sec comes with the penalty of concordokens and security standing penalty. War is currently cheap, easy, and risk free to declare and see what happens. Your risk is 50 million ISK. So why is an object to declare worse than the ability to dock where you place a thing for convince? You gain the convince of concord not acting when you shoot. At the low low risk of ISK that takes me less than a day to earn.

Then we leave it as an anchored object if CCP thinks it needs to be. It would lower costs as you only need one to declare war and the war continues until it’s destroyed, the target surrenders, or you take it down yourselves.

I’m open to debating what should and should not exist for benefits and penalties.

There is no change in subterfuge, diversion, or bluffs. You declare war by placing the object in space. Defenders are NOT told where you placed it. That’s your boat. The only restriction would be “somewhere” in High Sec as you have no need for this device in low or null because concord doesn’t respond there. And ISK is still not a risk.

Every single ship, station, tower, and POCO is a waste of structures if it does not serve your purpose. This does not make them a waste of server space. Your ship is what you risk if you want to go outside a station. Your Station is risked if you want the benefits it produces. The control tower is risked if you wish to continue to (wait… those are being slowly phased out by CCP… nevermind…) And a POCO is a waste if nobody ever uses it including the owner. ISK is an object without form in the game yet. ISK is only risked on buy and sell orders in which you’re actually getting what you want anyway. So why is war not an object placement but EVERYTHING else is in space? I don’t understand that myself.

This is a flaw. 1 man corps do not do this. Go around and look at the POCOs around high sec. You’ll find disposable shell corps everywhere. They will never undock and if you declare war then they’ll just shuffle the POCO to another 1 man corp to prevent you from actually attacking their structures. They already get 24 hours to do this. This allows them to avoid war at the low low cost of ISK that is cheaper than your ability to declare war. The risk doesn’t exist for a lot of things in the game. No stake in so much and nobody willing to see it.

But one of the easiest and simplest things to put a stake in the game with nobody wants to do for fear it’ll be harder for them to continue to do what they do. War. A thing that already puts data on the server. Make it an object. Make it need to be anchored in space. Convert the ISK into a thing… is somehow spontaneously bad when it comes to war. Towers had this issue with Citadels. We have Citadels now. What changed? Availability.

So lets go with that anchorable object instead of a citadel. You plant it in space, set it’s target to my corp, everything in space that is affiliated to my corp is now “war decced” and thus can’t change hands. You can begin shooting at me freely in 24 hours. In this 24 hour period I have no ability to attack you either. In order for me to stop it I need to FIND that object. You know where it is. I don’t. My risk to end the war now is whatever ship I use to fly out and destroy that object. But I still don’t know where it is. I need to start looking for it. I need to scan it down or hire someone to find it. Maybe I just put a reward out there for “elite high sec search corps” to locate it for me? 24 hours passes now I can fire on that object or anything you own without being concorded, but you can fire on everything of mine and already have information on where it is if you did your homework before you war decced. If I’m not in an alliance my risk is very high. If I am then everybody in my alliance is at that same risk. If someone wants to help by declaring war on you then they need to also anchor a war dec object and set the object to you. Otherwise they can’t help me without getting concordokened beyond what normally puts you into suspect status.

Maybe this object’s fuel source is just isk. Maybe it’s more than that and instead is fuel blocks. But only your corp can access it freely. Only the people involved in the war(s) can fire upon it. Your risk to declare war is this object and it’s contents. Someone blows it up and they can take the surviving pieces. A reason for defenders to fight rather than just wait until you’re bored or drop corp and continue like nothing has happened.

Or would you prefer they have no reason to fight back and war remains stagnant?

I know I’m very late to this discussion but I can’t resist. If you look at the wars started against ‘Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation’ (eventually ‘Holy Arumbian Empire’) and finally Rabble Inc. when I took over formally you will see what 1 person with some game knowledge assisting newbies can do in wars. Bob only knows what would happen if 2 people who actually know what they are doing started helping a corp affected by wars.

Now while they didn’t neccesarily ‘win’ every war listed they sure as hell gave it their damed best and won and negotiated peace with every single major merc entity of their day except PIRAT who lost their POCO’s for not backing down and THEN ceased the wars. This happened because they went from defensive fleets to actively hunting those who were supposed to be hunting them.

On a side note I invested the isk for free ships for the first few fleets. The loot paid for the rest of the wardec fleets :smiley:

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Nothing you just posted is a rebuttal or a counter to my criticism of what you said. This is a direct example of you being far too emotionally attached to your idea to let it go or re-examine it when it’s demonstrated to be a bad one.

And for the record, no, I’m not okay with citadels in their entirety. The whole idea of asset safety at all runs counter to what EVE is meant to be about. Everything else about citadels is fine, they are, other than asset safety, exactly what people have been asking for for almost a decade to replace POSes.

War always has risk. It’s not a wardeccer’s fault if a corp they target chooses to be a low risk, because in this game, the only thing that makes you a low risk is your choice to be one. You are free to make this choice, that’s part of what makes EVE what it is.

I don’t see the sense in tying wardecs to a structure.
Not all wardeccers are interested in structures, and not all corps want structures.

It might encourage more dedicated wars focused around a structure, but that can already be done with the current system. Attack/camp their structures and they will be forced to show up for a fight.

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No idea. I would say keep the cost the same as locator agents are already expensive and underpowered in my opinion and it is simpler that way, and when Observatory Arrays happen offer locates there for a much reduced or no cost, perhaps with a limited number per day or some other throttle. You could even add some time frame (was last active in the last day, week, or month) to the flavour text help limit the danger of chasing ghosts and inactives.

But regardless, it is a simple tweak that would make hunting targets for bounty hunters and mercenaries more viable.

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So we arent talking wardecs, we are talking locator agents and purchasable online status data.
Correct?

Sure. Locator agents can be used for lots of things, although one of those things is prosecuting a targeted war. They are just another intel tool, an indispensable one if you want players to find each other and interact in a game universe as large as New Eden is, at least in my opinion.

Too many of the current lead devs come from a culture of either random fights or large blocs with public and well known addresses that they don’t fully appreciate the difficulty for many people to actually find their enemy and the importance of intel tools in creating content. Again, at least in my opinion.

Went to work. Bashed my foot on a table corner at just the proper angle to annoy me for a few minutes. Hopped nobody saw it. Realized that the idea is already in the game.

Corp A and Corp B have been at war for a long time. Corp A deployed an object so they could attack Corp B in high sec space. They found Corp B’s ships and engaged them. Corp B sent defenders to assist their ships. Corp A and Corp B while at war were found by Corp C. C did something B didn’t like and they changed targets from A. A didn’t like not being top billing and joined in attacking C. When C was eliminated A and B went back to fighting. A finished off B. And not a single player was involved.

All because of an object deployed in high sec space that allowed them to attack in high sec… Go figure…

Yes.

But we’ve been down this road before.

Ive proposed Locator Agent changes before myself, and been attacked by the reps of powers that be here.

Why? I see no reason locator agents can’t be updated and modernized.

NS entities dont want it.

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I’ve never heard anyone from nullsec claim to want to remove or nerf locator agents. The buddy/watch list yes and its instant intel, but nothing about locator agents being overpowered or anything.

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They dont resist nerfing or removal of Locator Agents. Why would they.
But they will resist adding online/watchlist data.

Try starting a thread with your proposal, and see what happens.

Nothing would happen from nullsec. There is no plausible reason to resist the delayed location intel provided by locators. The only people against such a proposal when raised in the forums are the combat averse crowd, usually highsec residents, who value hiding as a tool. And fair enough, a buff to locators would put those being hunted at greater risk.

But the nullsec crowd? I bet most of them don’t know the feature exists and don’t care if you know where they are with a 15 minute delay. They had a legitimate complaint about the free and instant intel on when people login the watch list provided that were used to great effect to hunt caps and supercaps, but locator agents have never been contentious in anyway, at least that I have ever seen.

I think you are conflating the two things.

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You believe it would work.
Good.

Make the thread and see what happens.

The problems with locator agents have been raised by the CSM and CCP is aware and acknowledged the problems with them:

Like almost everything, it isn’t a matter of a lack of knowledge of an issue, but more a question of priorities. Spending any development time on a niche activity like locator agents isn’t going to happen unless it is in the context of something else like Observatory Arrays or some bounty hunter revamp. Another forum post isn’t going to make a difference I am afraid.

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No, but if made by you, you would see where the resistance to it stems from.

The resistance is primarily apathy and lack of resources to address a niche issue. Those don’t post on forums.

Those are also unfortunately, largely intractable. Until CCP decides they want to fix wars or bounty hunting or more generally, player intel, nothing is going to get done no matter how clearly the problems are presented or articulated. And while parts of the game are suffering from it, such neglect is hardly confined to locator agents - there just isn’t enough developer resources to go around in this age of Eve Online and many things are underdeveloped, neglected, or even straight out broken. So things get cut from the game, or ignored to the point the become so niche that they they are then cut from the game.

There is no point fretting over it, that is just a reality of the development of a game like Eve.

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Try it.
Make a thread proposing Locator Agents provide data of online status.
See what happens.

Graph source?

At first glance it looks like:

Holding login static, queries skyrocketed

Holding queries static, characters plummeted.